ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
[English]
Fleet Renewal by Air India and Indian Airlines
+
*307. SHRI V. SREENIVASA PRASAD:
SHRI M.V. CHANDRASHEKARA MURTHY:
Will the Minister of CIVIL AVIATION AND TOURISM be pleased to state:
(a) whether the Government have expressed serious concern over the aged fleet of the Air India and the Indian Air-lines.
(b) if so, whether the Government have any proposal for the fleet renewal programme on a long term basis; and
(c) if so, the details thereof and the time by which a decision in this regard is likely to be taken?
2
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF CIVIL AVIATION AND TOURISM (SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK): (a) to (c) The fleet requirements of Air India and Indian Airlines are kept under constant review. Both Air India and Indian Airlines have been directed recently to prepare a long term perspective plan for fleet renewal. A decision will be taken after the plan is submitted and considered.
SHRI V. SREENIVASA PRASAD: Sir, sometime back, the Minister has expressed his serious concern over the ageing fleet of the Air India and the Indian Airlines. Now in his reply also he has stated that he has directed the Air India and the Indian Airlines to prepare a long term perspective plan for fleet renewal. I would like to know from the hon. Minister what exactly are the necessary steps that are going to be taken by the Air India and the Indian Airlines for the renewal of the ageing fleet.
SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK: Sir, the plan will be submitted soon and we will take a decision.
SHRI V. SREENIVASA PRASAD: What are the steps...(Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: The decision is yet to be taken.
SHRI V. SREENIVASA PRASAD: My second supplement is regarding Airbus A-320. I would like to know whether the Government is evaluating the performance of the A-320. It already had a tragic crash in Bangalore and it had a couple of emergency landings at other places due to technical fault. I would like to know from the hon. Minister as to what steps are being taken to improve the performance and safety of airbus A-320.
3 Oral Answers
MR. SPEAKER: This is unconnected to the main question. If you want to answer, I have no objection.
THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION AND TOURISM (SHRI MADHAV RAO SCINDIA): This is not relevant to the main question. But I would certainly use this opportunity to put at rest any misconception about the A-320. As far as its performance is concerned, it is known all over the world that this aircraft is the latest in the state of the art technology and there is nothing wrong with the aircraft. The Ramdas Committee went into all the aspects after the tragedy that took place in Bangalore and the Committee had mainly put in down to pilot error. But there are other recommendations regarding infrastructure support that is required. Almost all those items have been implemented. In fact, as far as the aircraft is concerned, there are no major problems in the aircraft. Small snags appear in every type of aircraft and there is nothing to worry about. A-320 is a very safe aircraft and as I have said just now, it represents the latest in the state of the art technology.
SHRI M.V. CHANDRASHEKARA MURTHY: I would like to know from the hon. Minister what is the normal lifespan of an aicraft at the international level, when compared to our standards. Also, how is the age of an aircraft determined? Is it in terms of years or in terms of its total flying hours?
SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK: Sir, we have a mixed fleet. The
international standard varies from country to country. As far as we are concerned, we are keeping it from 15 to 20 years. We want to keep it within 15 years. That is our target.
[Translation]
SHRI SHANKAR SINGH VAGHELA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to know the period for which the air-buses were grounded and the loss 4 Oral Answers
incurred by the Government as a result there of. What is the present position and the number of airbuses lying idle and the reasons thereof; whether it is because of dearth of pilots or the trained pilots. For how long A-320 Airbuses were grounded till today, and the total loss suffered because of the same and the reasons for keeping these airbuses idle. (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: Sir, again I don't think this is really related to the main question.
MR. SPEAKER: The question is about the planning of the capacity utilisation.
SHRI SHANKER SINGH VAGHELA: Sir, it relates to the aged fleet of the Air India.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: I can very much answer this question now when we are throwing the whole subject open. I agreed to answer the supplementary put by the hon. Member just now, though it was not related to the main question. In this way if I start answering every supplementary...(Interruptions)
SHRI RAM NAIK: When you can answer the supplementary put by the other hon. Member, why cannot you answer this one?
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: As this question is not related, I don't have the notes ready to support me. I stand to be corrected. But I think A-320 was grounded between the period of 8 to 10 months. After examination they were put into operation first on the evacuation of the Gulf and later they were brought into service sometimes in November or December. The Hon. Minister of Power informed me that it was in November. As he has a store of information. I would like to rely on what he is saying. The fact of the matter is that we have 18 A-320. Normally, on an average two are al-
5 Oral Answers
ways in maintenance by rotation. The rest of 16 are in flying condition but at no given time more than 12 are in the air because one of the recommendations of the Ramdas Committee was that our pilots should be even more vigorously trained to be able to handle the latest technology that the cockpit has got. We do not in any way want to compromise with the safety of the passengers. So, until we are certain that the pilot is fully trained, we will not put him in command or we will not put him in the cockpit of A-320. So far we have enough crew to handle 12 A-320. Intensive training is going on and by December we should have enough crew to man the entire fleet of 16 which will be in the air at one given time.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: I would like to know whether it is a fact that three out of 11 Air bus 300 have been lying idle for the last several months at Bombay Airport because the Indian Airlines engineers are demanding parity in wages with the Air India.
MR. SPEAKER: The question is about aging of aircrafts and
augmenting of the fleet capacity.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: Sir, my question relates to capacity utilisation as three aircrafts are lying idle for several months. I would like to know whether the Government will take up this matter with the Indian Airlines Engineer.
SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE: Sir, the question refers to the fleet renewal.
MR. SPEAKER: No, you don't have to explain.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: My supplementary relates to capacity utilisation also.
MR. SPEAKER: Please come to the point The ambit of the ques- 6 Oral Answers
tion should not be so wide that you don't get pointed reply.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: Sir, he is ready to reply. I have said that three aircrafts are lying idle.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: Sir, as this is not a matter of age but of wage, I would require a separate notice.
SHRI MANORANJAN BHAKTA: Sir, during the past Congress Government, headed by Shri Rajiv Gandhi there used to be a flight from Delhi via Bhubaneswar to Port Blair. But subsequently this was withdrawn. Then, again permission was given to private aircraft to fly to Port Blair.
MR. SPEAKER: This does not pertain to this question. You are a very good friend of the Civil Aviation Minister. You can talk to him privately.
SHRI MANORANJAN BHAKTA: Sir, I would like to know from the hon.
Minister whether it is due to the ageing of the aircraft, the aircraft were grounded. When is he going to restore the air services? This is my pointed question.
MR. SPEAKER: It is a very simple question.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: Sorry.
SHRI MANORANJAN BHAKTA: I have asked a pointed question. I wanted to know whether it is due to ageing of the aircraft that they are grounded. It comes within the ambit of this question.
MR. SPEAKER: He wants a separate notice.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: It is nothing to do with the ageing of the aircraft.
7 Oral Answers
SHRI RAM NAIK: There is a particular age for every aircraft. It depands upon the company which is producing or manufacturing it. I want to know how many aircrafts are in use at present which are overaged? I want to know the number and why are they being used?
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: There is no particular specification as far as my knowledge goes, laid down for the use of an aircraft, the ageing of an aircraft...
SHRI RAM NAIK: It should be there.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: Because throughout its life, every single part of an aircraft is under constant renewal. But every Airlines, normally, ensure that maintenance costs are kept down and the useability goes up. Because with age, naturally, all of us tend to wear a little quicker. Therefore, it is not that the aircraft was unsafe to fly beyond 15 years or 20 years. The hon. Member will be surprised to know that a quarter of the total fleet in the world is above the age of 20 years. So, it is not that it cannot fly, it can fly but the commercial viability becomes very low.
SHRI RAM NAIK: That is what we want.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: I am just marshalling the facts.
Therefore, the commercial viability does certainly go down because the maintenance effort required is all that much greater.
Moreover, our Indian Airlines' fleet is fairly now young in age.
Because we have eighteen A320s which are almost new and we have 12 which will be coming in I think some time in early, 1995. It will bring down the average age considerably. Apart from that, we are also going into a long term perspective plan so that a
--------------------------------------------------------------------- *Not recorded.
8 Oral Answers
uniform policy is laid down over the future 20 years in order to see that there is no ad hoc and arbitrary decision taken. Of course, the decisions will have to be changed depending on the market conditions and technology changes. But generally, we will try and follow that and bring the average are of an aircraft down. But none of our aircraft are unsafe. That is what the Member is meaning and no particular age is laid down...
SHRI RAM NAIK: What about the economic viability?
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: Naturally, the economic viability goes down. Why do we want to keep the aircraft? Not just because they are good looking and that they are young. It is because, the commercial viability goes down.
So, we have 4 Boeing 737s which, we are going to retire. In fact we have already advertised for sale. I think most of them are over 20 years old. We are considering also, further phasing out of another eight which are ranging between 15 years and 19 years so that we can bring that age down. So, about 12 aircraft will be phased out very soon of which 4 Boeings have already been advertised. These are Boeing 737s.
[Translation]
SHRI YELLAIAH NANDI: Mr. Speaker, Sir, in Andhra Pradesh,
Tirupati Balaji is one of the most scared places. Earlier, a 48 seater aeroplane Avro used to ply there, which is now replaced by a 18 seater Vayudoor aeroplane and because of the lower capacity the passengers are facing great difficulty. I would like to know from the Minister through you whether there is any proposal under consideration to resume operation of 48 seater Avro Aeroplane.
[English]
MR. SPEAKER: Disallowed.
(Interruptions)*
--------------------------------------------------------------------- 9 Oral Answers
[Translation]
SHRI DAU DAYAL JOSHI: Mr. Speaker, Sir, will the hon. Minister be pleased to state whether the places where Vayudoot services have been introduced...
[English]
MR. SPEAKER: Disallowed.
SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: In view of the ageing of the aircrafts and in view of resource constraint, will the Minister think of withdrawing some of the domestic flights which are not essential so that both of us can be saved?
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA: These schedules and flight destinations are matters which are under constant review.
SHRI SHRAVAN KUMAR PATEL: Apart from the economic viability of the old aircrafts, there is a factor which is known as metal fatigue of the aircraft. Is the hon. Minister aware of that aspect and has that aspect also been taken into consideration?
SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK: All the aspects have been taken into
consideration.
[Translation]
Mailani-Shahjahanpur Railway Line
*308. DR. P.R. GANGWAR: Will the Minister of RAILWAYS be pleased to state:
(a) whether a railway line was in operation between Mailani- Shahjahanpur long back;
(b) whether it was promised recently to operate the said line; and
--------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 Oral Answers
(c) if so, when this line is likely to be restored?
[English]
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS (SHRI MALLIKARJUN): (a) Yes, Sir.
(b) No, Sir.
(c) Does not arise.
[Translation]
DR. P.R. GANGWAR: A railway line was in operation between
Mailani and Shahjahanpur which has been abandoned now. May I know whether that area is not inhabited by human beings? The entire population of that area is worried because that railway line has been removed. When this line is likely to be restored and the steps being taken by the Government in this regard?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: Actually, this line had been abandoned before Independence. Now, at the moment, the land is with the State Government; and in that land the construction of National Highway No.
29 is going on.
[Translation]
DR. P.R. GANGWAR: I mean to say that this abandoned line may kindly be restored so that the common men may get some relief. May I know by when this line is likely to be restored?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: There is no question of constructing any line.
However, for the facility of the passengers, there is a service from Mailani to Pilibhit and from Pilibhit to Shahjahanpur.
11 Oral Answers
[Translation]
Damage to Railway property
+
*309. SHRI PRABHU DAYAL KATHERIA:
SHRI B.L. SHARMA 'PREM':
Will the Minister of RAILWAYS be pleased to state:
(a) whether there has been unprecedented increase in the number of train accidents and the cases of damage to railway property by terrorists during the last few years;
(b) if so, the reasons therefor and the extent of damage done to railway property so far in both circumstances during the last two years and the current year (till date); and
(c) the steps being taken by the Government in this regard?
[English]
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS (SHRI MALLIKARJUN): (a) to (c) A statement is laid on the Table of the House.
STATEMENT
(a) While there has been no increase in the number of train
accidents during last few years, there is an increase in terrorists'
activities.
(b) The extent of damage to Railway property due to terrorists'
activities and accidents is nearly Rs. 64 crores.
(c) Security arrangements have been tightened in co-operation
with the State Governments.
[Translation]
SHRI PRABHU DAYAL KATHERIA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, will the hon.
Minister be pleased to state whether
12 Oral Answers
there has been unprecedented increase in the number of train accidents
and cases of damage to railway property by terrorists during the last
few years? If so, the reasons therefor and the extent of damage caused
to railway property during the last two years as a result of accidents
and terrorist actvities and the current year; and the steps being
taken by the Government in this regard?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: Because of the terrorist activities mainly in
Punjab, Assam and Andhra Pradesh--as the hon. Member desires to know
about it year-wise-this has been mostly taken in Northern Railway,
North-East Frontier Railway and South-Central Railway. In Northern
Railway, in 1989-90, there were 29 cases; in 1990-91, there were 54
cases; and upto July 1991, there were 14 cases. The total number of
cases is 97. And the property lost is to the tune of Rs. 28,70,158.
On the South Central Railway in 1989-90 there were four cases, in
1990-91 there were 23 cases and in 1991 up to July there were six
cases, totalling 33 cases. The extent of damage was to the tune of Rs.
1,56,82,482.
On the Northeast Frontier Railway in 1989-90 there were 21 cases,
in 1990-91 there were 12 cases and in 1991 up to July there was only
one case, totalling 34 case. The extent of damage was to the tune of
Rs. 79,82,000.
On the Western Railway there were two cases in 1989-90, in 1990-
91 there was only one case and in 1991 up to July there was no case,
totalling three cases. The extent of damage was to the tune of Rs.
50,000.
The total amount of all these cases is Rs. 2,65,84,940, that is,
almost Rs. 2.66 crores. These things have been happening particularly
because of sabotage activity, bomb blasts and firing on trains. In
this connection I would
13 Oral Answers
like to say that the property lost so far as the Railways are
concerned in 1989-90 was Rs. 12.86 crores in respect of rolling stock
and Rs. 6.18 crores for Permanent Way; and in 1990-91 the loss of
rolling stock was to the tune of Rs. 35.58 crores and that of
Permanent Way was to the tune of Rs. 7.11 crores. It totals Rs. 64
crores.
[Translation]
SHRI PRABHU DAYAL KATHERIA: Hon. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon.
Minister is saying that no accident took place during the last few
years but it appears from the answer that there have been 134 train
accidents during three months in which 41 people lost their lives. If
it is a fact, the reasons therefor?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: The accidents have taken place. That is a fact
of reality. But as such, the rate of accidents is coming down compared
to the previous years. The real reasons for such things are, human
failure which accounts for 65 per cent, 10 per cent due to road users
and 25 per cent due to failure of equipment.
[Translation]
SHRI ANKUSHRAO RAOSAHEB TOPE: Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether it is a
fact that 70 per cent accidents have taken place due to the negligence
of Railway employees and only 3 per cent because of sabotage?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: That is what I have mentioned, that about 65
per cent is due to human failure.
SHRI RAM KAPSE: While replying to the supplementary the Hon.
Minister has given the figures of accidents and deaths. Actually, I
would like to know how many accidents occurred and how many of them
were due to terrorist activity. Separately, I would like to know the
number of
14 Oral Answers
cases in which the accidents occurred due to other failures and the
number due to terrorist activity. I want the bifurcated figures.
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: So far as the terrorist activity is concerned,
on the Northern Railway, during 1989-90 there were 18 accidents on
track, one at station, and five in trains, and altogether 91 people
were injured and 20 were killed.
In 1990-91 there were 28 accidents on track, two at station, and
one in train resulting in the death of six people and injuries to 93.
In 1991-92 up to July, there were 15 accidents on track, one at
station and there was no accident in train. Three people were killed
and 19 were injured.
Due to derailment there was one case in 1989-90, there were four
cases in 1990-91 and two in 1991-92, up to July.
Due to firing on trains there was no case in 1989-90, there were
sixteen in 1990-91 and three in 1991-92, up to July. These resulted in
five deaths and 31 injured in 1990-91 and 75 deaths and 44 injured in
1991-92 up to July.
SHRI RAM KAPSE: What is the number of deaths due to accidents and
the number due to terrorist activity, separately?
[Translation]
SHRI B.L. SHARMA PREM: Mr. Speaker, Sir, rail accidents in 1988-
89 have............
SHRI RAM KAPSE: He has stated it in the reply.
SHRI B.L. SHARMA PREM: led to a loss of Rs. 551.1 lakh whereas
the loss suffered in 1989-90 has increased to Rs. 1285.7 lakh. Nearly
65%
15 Oral Answers
of these accidents occurred due to negligence on the party of the
railway staff. I want to know, through you, as to what action the
Government has taken against those responsible for the accidents.
Apart from this, 20% of the accidents have occurred due to faillure of
equipment. What steps have been taken by the Government to replace the
faulty equipments?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: Sir, so far as the human failure of the
railwaymen is concerned, necessary instructions have been issued that
the railwaymen should be very cautious. And they have been subjected
even to medical tests, periodical checks and so on and so forth.
Sometimes the drivers are also subjected to periodical checks.
So far as the equipment failure is concerned, the concerned
mechanical, electrical and all these divisions have been given firm
directive that should be cautious and use the standard materials and
not the substandard materials for want of funds even for signals and
telecommunications.
[Translation]
SHRI ARVIND NATAM: Sir, I would like to know from the hon.
Minister as to what special safety measures the Ministry has taken in
the states of Punjab and Assam in view of the terrorist activities
there?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: Sir, we have taken the following steps:--
1. Vulnerable railway stations, vital installations and important
bridges are being provided protection.
2. All important trains are being escorted in affected areas.
3. Track patrolling is being undertaken in identified vulnerable
sections.
16 Oral Answers
4. Patrol specials have been provided before important Mail/
Express trains for piloting in Punjab and other affected areas.
5. Sniffer dogs have been deputed in certain places in order to
detect explosive materials in the trains.
6. Travelling public is being alerted through public address
system to be careful about suspecious articles/unclaimed
luggage.
7. Random checking of passengers' luggage at important stations
have been introduced.
8. Ticket checking staff have been instructed to prevent entry of
unauthorised persons in coaches.
9. Control rooms have been opened for better coordination and
taking immediate steps in affected areas.
MR. SPEAKER: If it is too long you can lay it on the Table of the
House.
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: This matter concerns everyone, Sir. That is
why, I have been giving all these details.
[Translation]
SHRI RAJNATH SONKAR SHASTRI: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Minister
just told us....
SHRI KESRI LAL: Sir, I would like to ask the hon. Minister....
MR. SPEAKER: I have not allowed you to speak. This will not go on
record.
SHRI RAJNATH SONKAR SHASTRI:... that the Railways have suffered
damages to the tune of Rs. 1266 lakh on account of terrorist activity
and nearly 250 accidents took place.
17 Oral Answers
Just 15 days back a train from Bareily kept running without driver up
to 140 kilometres. Other incidents like failure of Locomotive and
robbery occur frequently on the North Eastern and Northern Railway.
What steps are being taken by the Government in this regard and how
much loss (in crores of rupees) has been suffered by the Railways?
Mr. SPEAKER: This is human failure. He has already answered that.
[English]
SHRI SOBHANA DREESWARA RAO VADDE: Sir, in Andhra Pradesh, because
of increase in Naxalite activities, several times, they are damaging
the properties of the Railways. Sometimes it so happens that
passengers are also suffering and a large number of people died in a
fire accident, caused by the Naxalites. I would like to know from the
hon. Minister whether he is aware of similar such incidents taking
place in other parts and recently near Bheemavaram, where an incident
had taken place in which one first class passenger died. Will the
Minister take suitable steps to compensate such victims who are
travelling in the Railway trains? (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You cannot make a speech Shri Rao, during the
question hour. There are others who want to ask questions.
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: We do have a scheme that if any passenger dies
during an accident or in any similar such manner, compensation of Rs.
2 lakhs is paid for the dead by the Claims Settlement Tribunal.
Late Running of Mail Trains
*310. DR. SUDHIR RAY : Will the Minister of Railways be pleased
to state:
(a) whether Express, Mail and Superfast trains often run late,
throughout the country; and
18 Oral Answers
(b) if so, the remedial measures contemplated by the Government
in this regard?
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS (SHRI
MALLIKARJUN) : (a) No, Sir.
(b) Maintaining punctuality of trains is an ongoing continuous
effort.
DR. SUDHIR RAY: The Minister has made an evasive statement
because for the last six months, almost all the superfast Express
trains are running and arriving six or seven hours late, everyday. In
fact, they have doubled the Rail fare. These Express trains do not run
even at the speed of 50 Kms per hour, but the Government is raising
the surcharge on the passengers. I would like to know from the
Minister what steps he is taking so that the trains run punctually?
MR. SPEAKER: He has already answered that question.
DR. SUDHIR RAY: No Sir, he has not answered and he has to reply
to my question.
MR. SPEAKER: Apart from your taking regular steps, are there any
extra steps being taken to see that the trains run on time?
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: Sir, the punctuality depends on various
factors. The hon. Member has said that the punctuality is suffering.
From first of July, we have started monitoring the punctuality of the
trains. Now the punctuality has improved. But, we are not satisfied
with this improvement. We want much more improvement on the
punctuality and this is the position.
DR. SUDHIR RAY: Sir, because the trains run late sometimes over
five to six hours, everyday, long distance passengers, particularly
the second class passengers face difficulties. I would like to know
from the Minister what steps he is taking about the insanitary
conditions in the toilets.
(Interruptions)
19 Oral Answers
MR. SPEAKER: I am not allowing this.
SHRI ANANDGAJAPATI RAJU POOSAPATI: I am a regular Railway
traveller and one day, the train went late and it had arrived early in
the next morning. I would like to ask the hon. Minister whether they
will give any compensation for taking the train late, because, the
passengers are losing money with regard to time and other factors.
What is the compensation? Atleast you can refund the ticket, in case,
they take the train beyond a particular time.
MR. SPEAKER: This is a very revolutionary demand. If the Minister
wants to reply, he can reply to it.
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: At the moment, we do not have any such proposal
for refunding it.
20 Oral Answers
SHRI SRIBALLAV PANIGRAHI: I would like to know from the hon.
Minister, through you Sir, whether it is a fact that for callous and
negligence attitude on the part of the Railway staff, most of the
trains run late. I would like to know whether any responsibility has
been fixed on late running of the trains on any of the officials and
what action has been taken against them? During the last one or two or
three or six months, has any attempt been made in this regard, if not,
what is the reaction of the Government?
THE MINISTER OF RAILWAYS (SHRI C.K. JAFFER SHARIEF): I do
appreciate the anxiety of the hon. Members since all of us travel by
trains. But for the information of the House I would like to give
comparative figures of June and July 1991 of long distance trains in
the matter of punctuality.
June 1991 July 1991
2621 Tamil Nadu Express 56 per cent 80 per cent
2622 Tamil Nadu Express 23 per cent 77 per cent
2723 A.P. Express 36 per cent 67 per cent
2724 A.P. Express 40 per cent 71 per cent
2625 Kerala Mangla Exp. 10 per cent 74 per cent
2626 Kerala Mangla Exp. 36 per cent 93 per cent
2627 Karnataka Express 46 per cent 100 per cent
2628 Karnataka Express 53 per cent 87 per cent
2391 Maghadh Express zero per cent 45 per cent
2392 Magadh Express 10 per cent 80 per cent
I can go on reading out the figures like this. From this, I hope,
the Members will appreciate that there is a marked improvement in the
punctuality of the trains. In all the railways we have nominated
senior officers not only to monitor the trains but also to look after
the railway stations. For any failure in this regard, the specified
designated officers will be responsible hereafter.
[Translation]
Modernisation of Railway Units in Ajmer City
*312. PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT: Will the Minister of RAILWAYS be
pleased to state:
(a) the number of various railway units in Ajmer city and the
arrangements made for their maintenance and safety;
21 Oral Answers
(b) the amount spent on modernisation of loco shed and carriage
factories in Ajmer during the last three years and the modifications
carried out accordingly;
(c) the nature of the works being performed at present in those
units; and
(d) the number of workers and officers working there at present
and the details of their profit and loss during the last three years?
[English]
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS (SHRI
MALLIKARJUN): (a) Seven-consisting of Workshop and attached units.
Maintenance of assets and safety of workers is by respective Railway
departments i.e. Civil, Electrical, Mechanical etc.
(b) In the last three years Rs. 19.11 crores have been spent in
expansion and improvements to Diesel Loco, Carriage and Wagon POH and
support facilities.
(c) Overhaul of steam and diesel locomotives, coaches, wagons;
repairs and manufacture of sub assemblies and components and other
supporting activities required for Railway workshop operations.
(d) 10534 workers and 35 officers. The above Railway units
function as service departments and there is no system of their
separate profit & loss accountal.
[Translation]
PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT: Sir, previously Ajmer was a very
important station from the point of view of the Railways. Its Locoshed
and Carriage factories were next in importance to Bombay only on the
Western Railway. But this station has been neglected for the past some
years. Previously the number of workers employed in the Locoshed and
Carriage factories was high but it continues to come down now.
Presently only 10,534
22 Oral Answers
workers and 35 officials are left there. Will the hon. Minister tell
me why this has happened?...(Interruptions)...
MR. SPEAKER: You cannot make a speech. Ask your question.
PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT: Sir, my question is what are the reasons
for the continuous disregard of Ajmer city by the Railways which is
leading to constant decline in the Locoshed and Carriage Factories
situated there?
[English]
SHRI MALLIKARJUN: Sir, whatever personnel are required that have
been employed. There is no shortage of the workers, as hon. Member has
expressed.
[Translation]
PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT: Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was stated that Rs.
19.11 crore have been spent. I want to know how much funds have been
allocated this year and for the next two years for the expansion of
Loco and Carriage facilities and in what way these facilities would be
expanded?
MR. SPEAKER: The amount of funds allocated this year can be seen
in this year's Budget. He cannot say anything now about the amount of
funds to be allocated next year.
[English]
I am disallowing it.
Development of Oil Fields
+
*314. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE:
SHRI LOKANATH CHOUDHURY:
Will the Minister of PETROLEUM AND NATURAL GAS be pleased to
state:
(a) whether attention of the Government has been drawn to the
newsitem captioned "Information on petro-
23 Oral Answers
leum wells suppressed by ONGC" appearing in The Statesman dated July
12, 1991;
(b) if so, the facts and details thereof and the reasons for
suppressing the information with the Government's reaction thereto;
(c) the action taken against the persons involved; and
(d) the steps taken or proposed to be taken to develop these
fields and the benefits likely to accrue therefrom?
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PETROLEUM AND NATURAL
GAS AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI S. KRISHAN
KUMAR): (a) and (b) There has been no suppression of information by
ONGC. The news report is speculative and not based on facts.
(c) Does not arise.
(d) The Kathana-Kalamsar area is already under oil production
producing about 100 tonnes per day.
SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: Sir, is the Minister aware about the
exploration of oil in West Bengal? There was a meeting between Shri
Praddep Dasgupta, the Dean of Geology, Calcutta University and ONGC
and it was promised that exploration of oil by ONGC will start again.
May I know what is the situation prevailing now?
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR: Sir, I have already answered in the main
question that the prognosticated research which Shri K. C.
Roychoudhary has claimed through newspaper reports and statements are
highly speculative and figment of imagination. As far as West Bengal
is concerned, we have already drilled 40 wells...(Interruptions) Three
are under drilling Golf Green-one, Rajganj-one and Ichapur-one. There
has not been any clear finding of commercially exploitable hydro
carbon research. The drilling in West Bengal is continuing.
24 Oral Answers
SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: My second question is whether the
Minister is aware of it that in West Bengal one has to go deep down
because of peculiarity of the oil formation rocks under the sea. It is
like Saudi Arabia. Therefore, finance needed is a little more. This is
where you are failing. Shri Satya Prakash Malviya is not here. He gave
me a word that this will be taken up. I would like to know whether the
present Government will continue that and go deep down, and supply of
financial resources can be augmented by us.
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR: Sir, I can assure the hon. Member that the
ONGC has taken all the parameters in consideration, in maximising-
results in the West Bengal explorations, Even then experts have
recently suggested that the drilling be stopped in a particular well,
the ONGC itself has taken the decision to drill the well deeper. But
the prognosticated resources as indicated in the main question are
widely exaggerated. Within the technical parameters under which the
ONGC functions, it shall be our effort to see that all prognosticated
resources in West Bengal are fully exploited. We have already dug
forty wells, as I said, and we have already spent in West Bengal
around Rs. 594 crores for exploration, even though we have not been
able to commercially exploit any oil or gas in the region.
SHRI LOKANATH CHOUDHURY: Sir, in the same news item, it is said
that drilling was done in 24 Parganas and that well was destroyed and
no inspection according to the standards had taken place. I want to
know whether this fact is correct or incorrect, and also whether the
Minister has looked into it. In the news item itself, he has said that
two wells were drilled which were destroyed and no inspection was
made. I want to know what is the fact. Part (b) of my question is that
if at all in that area the geology study indicates that there is
enough of oil, then what is the difficulty to go beyond the parameters
and find out and drill oil which is so
25 Oral Answers
scarce in the country today, as the news reveals?
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR: Sir, as regards the hon. Member's
supplementary part (a) his information is incorrect. All necessary
technical inspections have been conducted in this particular case. As
regards the second matter, the hon. Member is basing his query on the
newspaper report. This particular gentleman Shri Roychoudhary, who is
a retired Superintending Geologist of the ONGC, has been talking to
the Press and according to technical experts and what according to
practical realities as found during explorations, is hypothesis on
figments of imagination he is airing them through the Press.
Prognosticated resources in West Bengal, for instance in this
particular belt which he claims, is more than the prognosticated
resources which have been identified in the whole of India. Similarly,
he is making claims with respect to Gujarat in a particular well which
is more than what is in the whole of that basin. So, his statement is
highly exaggerated...(Interruptions)
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: How does he know that? This is a very
serious matter...(Interruptions).
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR: Well, I will answer this...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please address the Chair and you will avoid that
difficulty.
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: We are also addressing you, Sir
...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you a supplementary.
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR: Sir, the ONGC as well as the Ministry of
Petroleum have gone deeply into whatever claims have been made by this
Mr. Roychoudhary. We have got detailed reports of all the exploratory
26 Oral Answers
activities with all the technical data. We have got the opinion of the
Soviet experts, we have got the opinion of several technical
committees which have gone into this whole question. I have got sound
technical opinions in this file which show that the claims made by
Shri Roychoudhary are exaggerated. I have all the records with me.
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL: Sir, I am not speaking about any particular
claim regarding K. C. Roychoudhary or Pradeep Dasgupta or for that
matter any other geologist of great eminence of our country, I am
speaking about the reports coming out since early 50's. Experts have
declared that West Bengal is floating on oil. Even very recently a
seminar was held at Calcutta which was attended by the then Minister
of Petroleum Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy. In the presence of the hon.
Minister and the Chief Minister of West Bengal and all other
dignitaries all the scientists present there said that there is a
crude reserve in West Bengal and Gujarat. I am mentioning the
preliminary estimates according to which the oil reserve is around
28.5 billion tons which means that 2,850 crore tons of reserve. That
much of reserves can make India an oil-exporting country instead of an
oil-importing country. May I know from the hon. Minister that in view
of all these claims made by all these great and eminent geologists of
the country, whether he is prepared to submit a White Paper in this
regard?
MR. SPEAKER: The Minister will address the Chair.
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR: I do not want to disappoint the hon.
Member. Nor do I want to be disappointed nor does the Ministry want to
be disappointed. I have already said that drilling is continuing in
West Bengal. (Interruptions). The capacity of 28.5 billion tons of
exploitable reserve. The figure mentioned by the hon. Member is the
same figure given by Shri K. C. Ray Chaudhury in `STATESMAN'. I have
27 Oral Answers
already said that it is more than the total prognosticated reserves in
all basins of the country. (Interruptions) We are giving special
attention to West Bengal and we shall spare no efforts to see that if
there is any oil in West Bengal it will be exploited by the ONGC. West
Bengal will get very high priority. That is one of the States where
drilling has been continued in spite of the fact that no commercial
oil has been found so far. But the drilling is continuing in full
strength. (Interruptions)
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: It seems to me that the hon. Minister,
the Ministry of Petroleum and the ONGC are all very much allergic to
the very name of Shri Ray Chaudhury. How can the hon. Minister dismiss
that all the claims of Shri Ray Chaudhury are highly speculative? How
can you claim that the quantum that he has mentioned is highly
excessive and that is why you should dismiss it? It seems to me that
there is a certain vested interest that seems to ensure that India
remains in perpetual deficiency. You are drilling elsewhere than the
specified areas mentioned by Shri Ray Chaudhury. Why it is so? This is
a very important question. In view of the petroleum crisis and the
excessive payments we are making for the import of oil, I think that
if such kinds of claims are made, it is the duty of the House to see
whether there is any truth in it and go deep in it and the claim
should not be dismissed.
AN HON. MEMBER: And even deep into the soil. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Did you ask a question?
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will put that suggestion into a question form.
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: Sir, I made a very specific question.
Shri Ray Chaudhury has suggested that a particular area has to
28 Oral Answers
be drilled. My question is whether the Government is going to
undertake drilling in that area?
THE MINISTER OF PETROLEUM AND NATURAL GAS (SHRI B. SHANKARANAND):
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this country needs more oil. We need oil. All that
the country expects is. O.N.G.C. or any other organisation in the
Government, should be interested in producing oil from this country
other than importing from abroad. I very much appreciate the concern
of the hon. Members of West Bengal. (Interruptions) May I say one
word? If wishes were horses everyone would ride. (Interruptions) This
gentleman, Shri K. C. Ray Chaudhury was an official in ONGC. He
retired. To my information he was just an ordinary employee. He was
not an eminent journalist. (Interruptions)
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: You denigrate somebody as you do not
want him to probe.
SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I am coming to that.
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: What is the need of saying that he was
an ordinary employee? (Interruptions) How does that matter whether he
was a common employee or not?
SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Because on his press statement the House is
engaged in this discussion, it is very important.
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: It is a very serious matter. Why the
Minister is allergic to that man, I want to know. (Interruptions)
You have to go yourself. You call a meeting of the Ministers and
the Members concerned.
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Sir, you allow Half-an-Hour discussion on
this.
29 Oral Answers
MR. SPEAKER: You give a notice, we will see.
(Interruptions)
SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Mr. Speaker, as I said, he was an employee
of the ONGC. Nobody disputes that he was an employee of this
organisation. We go on the surveys, investigations, observations and
studies made by the ONGC experts, no less than the Soviet experts and
French experts. They have gone deep into the matter. According to
their own tasks, they have gone deeper into the matter and according
to that survey, drilling is going on in West Bengal. Let there not be
an impression carried in the minds of the Members from West Bengal
that we are discriminating as far as the exploratory activities are
concerned with regard to this area of the country. I totally refute
the allegation made by the hon. Members that we are not taking proper
steps as far as exploratory activities there are concerned. I totally
refute it.
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHURY: What is the way out, you tell me.
(Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL: Prof.R.C. Fuloria of the Oil India has also
said the same thing. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Give notice for Half-an-Hour discussion. Now,
Shrimati Malini Bhattacharya.
SHRIMATI MALINI BHATTACHARYA: Of the two oil wells that were
mentioned by the hon. Member Shri Lokanath Choudhury, one was in
Diamond Harbour which was abondoned in 1984, and the other is in
Boral, South 24-Parganas, which happens to fall in my
constituency........
SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: Another well is in my constituency.
(Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MALINI BHATTACHARYA. I am not depending on
30 Oral Answers
newspaper reports. I have got direct knowledge of this. So, I would
like to know when these two oil wells were abandoned, wether the ONGC
made inquiry about it and if there was enquiry whether that report
will be laid on the Table of the House. Let it be made public. If
there is no underhand dealing here, there should not be any objection
to these papers being laid on the Table of the House.
SHRI KRISHAN KUMAR: There is no under-hand dealing or anything at
all. The Diamond Harbour well was dug......
MR. SPEAKER: If you have a report, are you ready to place it on
the Table of the House?
SHRI B. SHANKARANAND He is explaining.
SHRI KRISHAN KUMAR: I am explaining that the Diamond Harbour well
was dug up to a depth of 5,500 ft. and the available drilling and
seismic data indicates that this particular strata is too tight to
hold any commercial accumulations of oil. That is the finding in the
report. Similarly, drilling in no well has been stopped in West Bengal
except on proper technical conclusions. As the Cabinet Minister has
said, it does not mean that drilling in West Bengal is not continuing
on a vigorous basis. We have been drilling in West Bengal
(Interruptions)
SHRI CHITTA BASU: Sir, the hon. Minister has told the House that
drilling would be continued in the West Bengal basin. That is a good
news. But may I know from the hon. Minister whether he is aware of the
fact that a number of wells which were drilled have been abandoned
recently, namely, Bodra, Deganga and some other wells in Nadiya
district. May I know from the hon. Minister whether the Government is
agreeable to place the report about all those wells which have been
abandoned for the information of the House?
31 Written Answers
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR: Sir, a well is abandoned only when it is
conclusively proved that it is dry and any further investment will be
a waste.
SHRI CHITTA BASU: Sir, I have asked about some specific cases.
SHRI S. KRISHAN KUMAR Sir, we can make available to the hon.
Members the information that we have on this matter.
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