16.03.92 *t02

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

A-320 Airbus

*265 SHRI CHANDRAJEET YADAV:

SHRI M.V. CHANDRA SEKHARA MURTHY:

Will the Minister of CIVIL AVIATION AND TOURISM be pleased to state:

(a) the existing number of A-320 Airbus with the Indian Airlines/ Air India;

(b) the number of accidents in which A-320 Airbus have been involved in the last two years;

(d) if so, the details thereof;

(e) whether any request has been sent to Airbus Industries, France to send the preliminary report of investigation into the causes of accident involving A-320 airbus which crashed in Voges Mountains recently;

(f) if so, whether it is proposed to reexamine the safety of these planes; and

(g) if so. by when and if not, the reasons therefor?

THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION

AND TOURISM (SHRI MADHAV RAO SCINDIA): (a) to (g) A statement is laid on the table of the House.

STATEMENT

(a) At present there are 18 Airbus A-320 aircraft in the fleet of Indian Airlines. Air India does not have any A-320 aircraft.

(b) During the last two years there have been two accidents involving A-320 aircraft, one at Bangalore on 14.2. 90 and the other in France on 20.1.1992.

(c) and(d). An agreement has been entered Into by Indian Airlines with Airbus Industries on 5. 6. 89 for purchase of 12 additions A-320 aircraft.

(a) Yes Sir.

(f) and (G) There is no finding yet which calls call for re- examination of airworthiness of this class of aircraft.

SHRI CHANDRA JEET YADAV: Sir, in view of the fact that two accident of A-320 aircraft took place, one in India and another in France, and that the preliminary enquiry has shown the defective cockpit dosing of the plane and also the navigational problems, which is - it is said - a highly computerised system, there are doubts that even the software of the airplane's computers were also defective.

Lufthansa and Air France have instructed their pilots not to use this became landing system. The pilots have also made several representations in France as well as in India. It is said that there is always a possibility that a wrong button can be pressed and the accident can take place. I would like to know from the Minister whether he has taken up this issue with the A-320 Airbus, manufacturing company and whether they have assured that they y are taking certain necessary steps to rectify these defects in the cockpit. I would like to know from the Minister as to what has been done in this regard.

SHRI MADHAV RAO SCINDIA: Sir, after

Oral Answers 11,

this air crash at Starsbourg. the DGCA, France was requested by the DGCA, India to provide details which may be pertinent. And the DGCA, France has made a preliminary inquiry and they have said that there is no major problem in operating this aircraft except for a few directives that should be issued, which would avoid possible confusion between vertical speed and the flight path angle. These directives have been issued by the DGCA, India. And even before this crash took place, the matter that you are referring to, the Air Inter and Air France had given up the use of VORDME approach. But the DGCA, France has convened a meeting after the crash. They have discussed it with the Airbus Industry and with the two Airlines concerned. They have come to the conclusion that a ban of the VORDME approach is not really required provided certain other safety procedures are carried out; which is a VORDME approach with a manual feedback, which can then both be monitor. So, providing these procedural directives are issued, they have felt that there is no need to ban the VORDME approach and these directives have been issued by the DGCA.

SHRI CHANDRA JEET YADAV: I will say from my experience. Only there weeks before, I was flying by this aircraft from Varanasi to Bombay. And at Lucknow, it was landed for four hours. A Swedish priest, who was also travelling with me when we were asked to get out of the plane; said:"There is a God. If this defect had occurred ten minutes before when we were in the air, where would we have been "After four hours of stay at Lucnow Airport in the midnight, it was found that there was no engine trouble only a computer defect. The Captain while taking off again after four hours announced that there was no serious trouble with the engine and it was only a wrong message of the computer. And that is what I am saying. As this plane has highly computerised, gadgetry there is always a possibility of commit- ting a mistake. And that is what the pilots have also said. Even the French pilots said now there are only two pilots in the cockpit...

(Interruptions)

Oral Answers 12

MR. SPEAKER: Put your question please.

SHRI CHANDRA JEET YADAV: In spite of mensing instructions, board serious defects continue to be there. When the people take A-320, they always go with a thought as to what will happen to them? The Government going to purchase additional 12A-320s. I would like to know from the Minister that in this background...

(interruptions)

[Translation]

SHRI SRIKANNTA JENA: Please ask him to conclude. (interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Accidents can occur even while riding on bicycle (Interruptions)

[English]

SHRI CHANDRA JEET YADAV: Sir, everybody should take care. Please do not make it so lightly. Otherwise, the Minister will be very much interested to go ahead and not to look into this problem. The fact is that country had to lose almost Rs. 500 crores because A-320s were grounded here for a long time. now, I am asking the Minister again that before purchasing these twelve A-320 additional aircraft, will he please ask the manufacturing company at least to remove those defects which have been preliminarily found in India I would also like to know how much he is going to spend to purchase these aircraft and when are why likely to join the Indian Airlines.

SHRI MADHAV RAO SCINDIA: Sir, the agreement was signed to

purchase these twelve aircraft way back in 1989 and unless a major flaw appears in these aircraft, I am afraid , we do not have much option. However, this does not mean that I am in any way, inferring that there is anything wrong with the aircraft. Neither the hon.

Member is a technical man nor I am a technical man. We can only depend on various engineers and technical experts who go into this mat-

Oral Answers 13,

ter, both in India and abroad. As far as the findings so far are concerned, as I said, no major flay seems to have appeared in these aircraft. I can only go by that. These airbuses are coming in from 1993 to 1994 and we will be spending something like 958 million on their purchase.

MR. M.V. CHADRASHEKARA MURTHY: Mr., Speaker, Sir, I would like to know whether it is a fact that the pilots in India and in France have argued that these A-320 airbuses cannot be flow by a two member crew; it requires another member so as to keep a watch over the altitude as well as other instruments at the time of landing. If so, I would like to know what action has the Government of India or the Indian Airline taker, so far to rectify these defects.

SHRI MADAV RAO SCINDIA: Sir,some suggestions have come in from different quarters from, time to time. But, as I said the matter has been gone into in depth, both on Indian soil and also abroad and at present it has not beep found necessary to have a three-member crew.

SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: Sir, since the technical people here are not only engineers but also pilots, I would like to know that what they feel in India. Is it a fact that they are very much reluctant to fly these aircraft? If os, because they are the most important people, because they are the most important people, what is the opinion of the Minister about that?

SHRI MADHAV RAO SCINDIA: Sir, as I said, suggestion have come in from different quarters from time but there is no reluctance on the part of the pilots to pilots to fly these aircraft. They are flying them everyday. Our pilot are certainly technically amongst the most capable pilots in the world. So, I do not see any major problem with the pilots

SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: Have they not represented to you about this?

Oral Answers 14

SHRI MADHAV RAO SCINDIA: I have said that some suggestions have come. But, as I said. there is no major reluctance on the part of the pilots to fly these aircraft.

National Thermal Power Corporation

*266 SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHY: Will the Minister of POWER AND NON- CONVERNTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES be pleased to state:

(a) the details of the amounts payable by the States to the National Thermal Power Corporation:

(b) the steps taken for collecting the same;

(d) if so, the details thereof State--wise?

THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF POWER AND NON- CONVENTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES (SHRI KALP NATH RAI): (a) to (d). A Statement is laid on the Table of the House.

STATEMENT

(a) Details are given in Amendment in Annuexure-I attached.

(b) The steps taken for recovery of dues include frequent visits to State Electricity Boards and State Government by Senior Executives of the NTPC, organising meetings, recovery through Central Appropria- tion etc.

(d) The Eighth Plan is yet to be finalised. However, the execution of the following on-going/approved projects would be con tinued by the NTPC during the 8th plan:

Oral Answers 15,16

-------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Farakka II--Coal (West Bengal) 1000 MW 2. Kahalgaon I---Coal (Bihar) 840 MW 3. NCTPP-Coal (Uttar Pradesh) 840 MW 4. Kawas I -Gas (Gujarat) 844 MW 5. Talcher I- Coal (Orissa) 1000 MW 6. Dadri I -Gas (Uttar Pradesh) 817 MW 7. Gandhar I - Gas (Gujarat) 650 MW ------------------------------------------------------------------- In addition to the above, NTPC have submitted proposals for the following projects during the 8th Plan period. The implementation of these projects would depend upon availability of resources, fuel linkage, environmental clearance and other statutory clearances: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Anta-II Gas (Rajasthan) 430 MW 2. Faridabad - Gas (Haryana) 800 MW 3. Godavari - Gas (Andhra Pradesh) 400 MW 4. Rihand II -Coal (Uttar Pradesh) 1000 MW 5. Vindhyachal II- Coal (Uttar Pradesh) 1000 MW 6. Yamunanagar I- Coal (Haryana) 840 MW 7. Farakka- III - Coal (West Bengal) 500 MW 8. Mangalore I - Coal (Karnataka) 420 MW 9. Kayamkulam-- Coal (Kerala) 420 MW ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ANMEXURE-I

Outstanding dues of NTPC as on 29th February 1992

(Rs. In Lakhs)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- S.No. SEB/Organisation Outstanding Surcharge

dues billed

------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 2 3 4

1. Andhra Pradesh 1011 1640

2. Bihar 25371 7502

Oral Answers 17,18

3. Gujarat 5295 2841

4. Goa 16 2

5. Haryana 10887 5811

6. Himachal Pradesh 1046 660

7. Jammu & Kashmir 4165 636

8. Karnataka 1003 1582

9. Kerala 4312 799

10. Madhya Pradesh 22250 9848

11. Maharashtra 2763 3218

12. Orisha 1535 1620

13. Punjab 2119 103

14. Rajasthan 10014 9001

15. Sikkim 6 4

16. Tamil Nadu 7047 2656

17. Uttar Pradesh 0* 22917

18. West Bengal 4680 2507

19. Chandigarh 295 0

20. Dadra & Nagar Haveli 69 1

21. Daman & Diu -39 0

Oral Answers 19,20

22. DESU 5088 4510

23. DVC 8370 2080

24. Pndicerry -157 1

TOTAL 117146 79939

NOTE: *Arrears of Rs. 744.68 crores up to 29.2.1992 (and

a surcharge of Rs. 71.50 Crores) of UPSEB adjusted against proceeds of transfer of Feroze Gandhi, Unchahar Thermal Power Project to NTPC.

SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHY: Sir, the answer shows that almost all the Stale Electricity Boards where the NTPC plants are being Contemplated, own large amounts of dues, more than thousands of crores of rupees. I would like to know how the Government is going to recover these dues so that the new projects could be started. The an- swer given in this respect is very vague. It appears that only utilising the power and not paying the charged is the best method. If so, will the Minister be pleased to answer these dues will be collected first before contemplating to start these new projects?

There are some plants where there are no dues like the gas-based plants in Godavari area and another super thermal plant at Visakhapatnam. I want to know what is the status of these plants.

SHRI KALP NATH RAI: Sir, arrears of Rs. 1,171 crores are due to the N. T. P. C. The State Electricity Boards have not paid it.

Surcharge of Rs. 977 crores is also due. The Central Government is trying its level best to get the arrears. Some Electricity Boards are paying also. But we can only persuade them by writing letters, telephoning to the Ministers, Chief Ministers etc. When they were no' paying, the Central Government adopted a principle of Central appropriation in 1990.

We wanted to appropriate the money of Central Government outlay which was sanctioned to the Slate Governments. We have now received Rs. 510 crores because of Central appropriation. Even then arrears of Rs.

1,177 crores are pending and surcharge of Rs. 977 crores is pending.

The sooner we got the arrears, we shall be in a position to invest that money in other plants. Because the State Government are not poying the arrears, even the World Bank and multi-lateral agencies are not giving a loans to the Government so that we can invest that money in the power sector.

SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHY: Sir, the Government's policy now is to encourage private sector also to enter into the power field. The K.

P. Rao Committee which has been constituted to suggest ways and means to improve the system of working of these power plants and the tariff system has suggested a two--point tariff rate. I want to know from the Government whether that proposal will be implemented. I may submit that in case it is implemented the private sector plants that, are being started will apply for this two-point tariff rates.

SHRI KALP NATH RAI: Sir, the hon. Member has questioned about Oral Answers 21,

Visakhapatnam power plant. It is a State-sector plant. The coal linkage has been done by the Central Government. There is a resource crunch problem in Andhra Pradesh.

They were advertised and we included that plant in the private sector. It is known that amendment in the electricity act have taken place regarding private sector participation and now any private party is allowed to invest money in the Visakhapatnam plant.

About the second question of K. P. Rao committee's recommendations, I may say that the Committee had suggested two-point tariff rate - one on the capital investment and another tariff on the fuel and working capital investment and another tariff on the fuel and working capital. The two tariffs were been combined together and a notication to this effect has been issued by the Central Government on 1.4.1991. This will be applicable to all the State Government.

[Translation]

SHRI NARAIN SINGH CHAUDHRI: Mr. Speaker'., Sir, it was proposed to set up two power plants of 844 MW each in the State of Haryana.

One at Yamuna Nagar based on thermal power and the other at Faridabad based on gas.

I would like to know that during the eighth five year plan by which year the work is going to start an these two power, plants and the time by which work will be completed and whether an allocation for these has been made in the Budget?

SHRI KALP NATH RAI: Mr. Speaker, Sir, power plants are proposed to be set-up at Yamunanagar and Faridabad during the Einghth Five Year Plan. Power plant at, Yamunanagar was proposed to be set-up with the Canadian assistance but the Canadian Government has refused to finance this project even then the Government of India has decided that the work of the Yamuna Nagar project should be taken up during the eighth five year plan.. Work on Faridabad gas

Oral Answers 22

based power plant will also be taken up during the eighth five year plan, as the concurrence for supply of gas from the Minister of Petroleum has already been obtained.

SHRIMATI SUSEELA GOPALAN: May I know from the hon. Minister whether the proposal to change the site of the Kayankulam thermal plant within the complex but to a thickly populated area will result in the cancellation of the project itself ? And already the NTPC has started shifting their offices to other project areas. So I want to know whether it is correct and if it is not correct, when will the project start functioning.

SHRI KALP NATH RAI: Mr. Speaker, Sir, Kayankulam project had been accepted by the Government of India with Russian assistance. As you know, the Soviet Union has disintegrated, even. then some delegation to the Indian Government has gone to Russia and they have promised a now commercial credit. In the changed circumstances they have promised to give assistance to Kayankulam.

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