(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Look, this language issue is a very emotional and sensitive one. Nevertheless, he said it. Again you stood up. I cannot talk to each and every body. Please sit down.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER:Mr. Lokanthji when I am on my legs you please sit down. Please understand that the language issue is a very sensitive issue...
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down.
(Interruptions)
[English]
At this stage, Shrimati Dil Kumari Bhandari went back to her seat.
19 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Why don't you hear? (Interruptions) This is a fit case for a separate seat.
[Translation]
MR. SPEAKER: Arrangements will be made on their requests.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please deal with the issue in such a manner as it may have no repurcussions.
(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Ghulam Nabi Azad,I think, you have said
something now. Is that enough?
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: At this stage, that is enough.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Mrs. Bhandari, I will allow you.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
MR. SPEAKER: Please see that what ever you are saying, you are not understanding that You please sit down. If you refer to English it would adversely affect the southern regions of the country you please understand the issue and then speak. Please sit down. You are not understanding as to what you are speaking and what effects it will have. We respect all the languages. We do not give step motherly treatment to any language. We try to adopt everything that is good in any of the languages.
20 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
(Interruptions)
[English]
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI: Sir, he should withdraw his comment that Nepali is a foreign language.
MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you.
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI: But he should first withdraw his comment. Sir. (Interruptions)
[Translation]
MR. SPEAKER: The Government has already stated that it does not treat Nepali language as a foreign language.
[English]
He has said it.
(Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Sir, I am on a point of order. If it is not a foreign language, then the allegation made by the Member who spoke earlier pretending to be from the Congress Party, should be expunged. Sir, he has insulted the sentiments and feelings of a large number of people in this country and all of us. So, that should be expunged from record.
MR. SPEAKER: Somnathji, I will look into it.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI NITISH KUMAR: Mr. Speaker, Sir, Shri Indrajeet is speaking in such a tone as can create tension in the country. He is exploting the people of Darjeeling. He should
21 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
make his speech either in Nepali or in Gorkhali language. Such representatives are responsible for creating tension in the country.
They also should speak in Gorkhali language. Why is he speaking in English? (Interruptions)
[English]
SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE: Sir, unless he withdraws his
remark, he should not be allowed to speak. He has to withdraw that statement. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Nirmal, please do not go beyond a limit. I have said that I will look into it. Do not stretch it too much.
(Interruptions)
SHRI INDER JIT: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must have a chance to
speak...(Interruptions)... I wish to make it quite clear that I have no intention at all of hurting the feelings of Mrs. Bhandari. I have known her for long. We have been friends. I certainly do not wish to hurt her feelings, I have merely stated whatever I was tod in Jammu. I agree with what the Parliamentary Affairs Minister has said. I am not speaking on behalf of the Government. I am speaking on behalf of my constituency, putting forward the views of my constituency.
(Interruptions)
(Translation]
SHRI CHHEDI PASWAN: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we do not want to hear him in English. He should speak either in Hindi or in Gorkha language. We would not like to hear him in English. (Interruptions)
[English]
SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH (Uluberia): You are speaking on behalf of those who want to break the unity of this country. (Interruptions) 22 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
SHRI TARIT BARAN TOPDAR (Barrackpore): This is a seditious
remark.
SHRI INDER JIT: This is not a seditious romark
...(Interruptions)...Mr. Speaker, I have only one more point to make.
It is true that the Home Minister convened a meeting of all the national parties to work out a consensus. It is also true and I am told that a consensus was reached. But my complaint is that in reaching this consensus, a certain mockery of democracy was made. The party which represents Darjeeling, the party which won all the three seats nashing up the CPI (M) MLAs and its candidates there, is the Gorkha National Liberation Front. But Sir, their views were not considered. The views of the Gorkha National Liberation Front were completely ignored.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Sir, he is misleading the House
deliberately. And in this way, the country's unity is being broken, (Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (Lucknow): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order....(Interruptions) We have witnessed as to how emotions are linked with the language. But it is also possible that the discussions on the language can be held in the House peacefully and it should be held peacefully. Whatever Shri Inder jit is saying, I do not agree with him and I totally disagree with his views. But he has every right to express his views. (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: How many times would you repeat the same thing?
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: This is a different issue.
(Interruptions) I am a very senior member of the House. My friend Shri Inderjit Gupta is sitting here. Once such a situation had arisen in this House when
23 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
someone had named Hindi as a foreign language and we had to tolerate it peacefully because we have to keep in mind the unity of the country. Do not make it a Hindi-English issue. There may be difference of opinion regarding Gorkhali or Nepali. He is talking about his constituency. The party has clarified it that it is not linked with it, the Government has also no concern with it. Let him express his views. But Shrimati Dil Kumari disagrees with his views and just now she has expressed her views.
MR. SPEAKER: She has expressed her sentimental difference also.
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: How a woman can become
aggressive...(Interruptions) Shrimati Bhandari can be given an opportunity. If our Marxist friends with to express their strong reaction in this regard, they can also do so. If some member is not given a chance ... (Interruptions) Please don't say like this. If some other member speaks in this manner, he will also be pointed out that he is saying so. It is not good. (Interruptions)
[English]
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (Hooghly): But can he go on making provocative statements?
SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE: Is it your contention that any thing can be said in the House even when it is not permissible, and that is the hallmark of parliamentary democracy? (Interruptions) [Translation]
SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: Mr. Speaker, Sir, You are here to conduct the proceedings of the House. If something is said unparliamentary, the hon. Speaker would control It. If you want to raise any objection, please raise it after the speech of
24 Re. inculsion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
the member. But the debate cannot continue in this manner. If she is alone in the House, she is not supposed to have lost her right to speak in the House. She has every right to express her views in the House, and I would like to defend her right to express her views in the House.
[English]
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Sir, I also concede the right of Members to speak. But I raised an issue to which, only the Government can give an answer. The question is whether the Bill is being brought or not.
Some Members have supported me. The leader of the Opposition said that the Bill has to be brought because there has been consensus. Now suddenly, we are hearing speeches on that. All sorts of provocative comments are being made and no discussion is going on the merits of the Bill. The same thing is being repeated. He is calling an Indian language a foreign language. If he has a right to speak I too have the right to object. He cannot hurt the sentiments and feelings of crores of people in this country, just on the plea that he is exercising his right. You may recall that is why I have asked you to expunge those remarks. He cannot go on speaking indefinitely in this way. I never challenged his right to speak. Is this the occasion to talk in that fashion? We only wanted to know from the Government that they may make it clear as to when this Bill is being brought. (Interruptions) SHRI INDER JIT: Kindly allow me to explain...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Inderjit, please sit down.
SHRI INDER JIT GUPTA: You may exercise your right to expunge the remarks. They should not go on the record of Parliament.
25 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
MR. SPEAKER: I have already said that I would look into it.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Order please. I am on my legs. I want to say
something. Please hear me first.
[Translation]
Whatever Vajpayee Sahib has said is quite correct, he has stated as to how the Members should express their views in the House. There is no mistake in that. If you have any objection I will give you a chance to speak. You should clarify It. If any objectionable thing is going on record, please tell me and I will look into it. It had also been raised.
... (Interruptions)...
[English]
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Sir, deliberately he has been making provocative statements. Sir, I have a right of intervention.
Intervention is a permitted method of Parliamentary democracy.
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, You have a right. Nobody will deny you and nobody objects to your talking also. Let me tell you.
SHRI SOMNAH CHATTERJEE: I said, because of the commitments, Government must tell us what is going to happen.
MR. SPEAKER: If I have understood Vajpayeeji correctly, he has not objected to your method of speaking. He has not objected to the method of speaking of Inderjitji or Vishwanathji. He had objected to some Members obstructing him. He is hundred per cent correct in that.
What is really happening is that sitting here I am not in a position to say something. I am very grateful to the senior Members. They have been helping me to
26 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
control the House. But this kind of help should come from all sides.
That is my request.
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI: Sir, I am also hundred per cent for the right to speak.
MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you immediately after Shri Inderjit.
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI: No, Sir, I would like to speak before him. You please give me just half-a-minute.
MR. SPEAKER: Inder Jitji, you should yield to the lady member when she is intervening.
SHRI INDER JIT: I am always willing to yield to Shrimati Dil Kumari Bhandari. It she lets me know, I shall gladly yield.
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI: Sir, I am also hundred per cent for the members, right to speak in the House, but in the name of right to speak in the House a Member cannot mislead the House. Shri InderJit is misleading the House.
MR. SPEAKER: I will look into the matter.
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI: Sir, I will not allow him to do that because I do not think that there is any rule which allow Inder Jitji to mislead the House and the country. If there is any Gorkha language and any Gorkha literature, let him produce and then I will see.
MR. SPEAKER: I would like to say that when a particular sentence was spoken here, tears trickled down your eyes. That is not an easy thing. In think it is because of the feelings you have for the nationality and for the language. We respect it and I have no doubt that the House and the Government
27 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
will respect it. You should not have any doubt about that.
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, I was saying that a meeting of all the national parties was held and a certain consensus was reached. I concede that and it is in the fitness of things that Government continues to move in the direction of consensus. But my complaint is that the Gorkha National Liberation Front which won all the three seats in the last election to the West Bengal Assembly, which won 28 out of 30 seats in the Council Elections, was not consulted. The Darjeeling Hill areas are represented by the Gorkha National Liberation Front and none else. I strongly feel that the Government should have consulted the Gorkha National Liberation Front before taking a final decision in the matter. And, so long as the Gorkha National Liberation Front, which represents the entire Darjeeling hill areas where Gorkha bhasha or Nepali as they call it is spoken-is not consulted no decision can be taken. If the Gorkha National Liberation Front is not given a chance to put forward their views before the Government, it would be making mockery of democracy. That is my view.
Therefore, lurge that before a final decision is take in bringing forward this Bill, the Gorkha National Liberation Front must be consulted.
One more thing and I would have done. I was present in the House when Shri Jacob replied to the debate on behalf of the Government. He said that matter was being studied, and the Government would try its best to bring forward...
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: No.
SHRI INDER JIT: You can look into the records. He said that he would try to bring forward this Bill during the course of the Session but meanwhile demands for inclusion of several other languages have come up. It is a grave situation. The Government must go into the entire totality of the issue
28 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
raised and then only come forward with a Bill.
One thing more and I would have done. An objection has been raised to my description of Nepali in a Particular way, I would venture to submit that the same expression was used on July 8, when the issue was discussed here.
MR. SPEAKER: Don't repeat it. It is not necessary.
SHRI INDER JIT: Secondly, I would like to say that under the Indo Nepal Treaty for peace and Friendship there are certain provisions which I would say need to be seen. Today it is my great regret that even some friends here are calling Nepali a national language.
Even, as all my friends here today feel proud in calling Nepali as a national language, they should know the position of the Hindi language in Nepali. A language which is spoken by 40 per cent of the people in Nepal, is not accepted there either as an official language or as a national language. I think we must bear this in mind.
Therefore, to conclude, let us, not make a mockery of democracy... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is not a mockery of democracy. Don't use such strong expression.
SHRI INDER JIT: I would urge the Government strongly not to repudiate what has been done earlier and really strengthen the concept of a moratorium on all divisive issues. (Interruptions)
[Translation]
MR. SPEAKER: I will also give you a chance. Please sit down. Let us take the issues one by one.
29 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Constitution
SHRI RAM SARAN YADAV (Khagaria): I would like to say when our country is one than the language should also be one. There is no restriction on teaching of any language in our country then why such a controversy over the language is going on. If there are so many languages in the country there will be disputes and it will weaken the country. Therefore, there should be one language in the country.
[English]
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry that I was swept away in my emotion and in the process, I showed emotions very wrongly. I am sorry for that.
MR. SPEAKER: No. You did it correctly. We respect it. You please know it that the entire House respects your tears and your emotions about this language and the nationality.
SHRIMATI DIL KUMARI BHANDARI": Thank you.
Sir, the demand for inclusion of Nepali language in the Eighth Schedule was started in the year 1956. Recently, when I was going through the records in the Parliament Library, I came to know that as many as 20 Private Members Bills have been adopted on Nepali and nowhere, during the course of the discussion also ever Gorkha word was used. Not only that, in 1971, here in this august House, one hon.
Member of Parliament, late Shri Rathan Lal Brahmi spoke in Nepali. He represented Darjeeling and spoke in Nepali because he did not know English or Hindi. So, he was allowed to speak in Nepali. For all practical purposes, for the Government also, the work or the nomenclature of the language is always Nepali. In the year 1988, when hon. Shri Narasimha Rao wrote me a latter regarding the seat of Reader in Banaras Hindu University, then also, he
30 Re. inclusion of more language in the 8th Scheduled of the Consitution
mentioned to me that Nepali is taught in Banaras Hindu University as one of the modern Indian languages. Nepali is being taught in Allahabad University since 1911. Like wise, almost 18 universities in the country teach Nepali as modern Indian language. Not only that, the country's prime educational Boards viz. ICSE and CBSE have Nepali language in their courses. In West Bengal only in 1927, Nepali was declared as a vernacular. In 1961 on the insistence of Shri Jawahar Lal Nehru, Nepali was declared as an official language of three hill Sub-Divisions of Darjeeling District, namely Kalimpong, Kurseong and Darjeeling itself.
The State Legislatures of West Bengal, Tripura, Sikkim and recently, Himachal Pradesh, have also passed Resolutions for inclusion of Nepali language in the Eighth Schedule of the Constitution.