SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bolpur): We all agree that there will be no discussion on the merits of the Bill. The Home Minister himself has pointed that there are demands for other languages, like Dogri, Santhali and also Maithili. The sentiments of the people and of the House should be considered at appropriate time. I am sure the 12 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
Minister will consider and bring appropriate laws.
MR. SPEAKER: I think, before I put the motion for consideration to the vote of the House, this being a Constitution (Amendment) Bill, voting has to be by division.
(Interruptions)
SHRI INDER JIT (Darjeeling): It is important. Sir, I want to say something. I want a minute or two. (Interruptions) I must have my say.
MR. SPEAKER: Now, please take your seats. The lobbies have been cleared. But then, I would like to be little more careful about voting. It requires a particular number of votes and it seems that the House has agreed to pass it and hardly, there is any dissenting voice on it. So, for lack of numbers, something else should not happen.
Therefore I would like the whips of the parties to be careful and I would give some more time also, if you want. But then we would not like to put it to the vote and get the voting. Now, I would allow Mr.
Inder Jit to speak.
SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Midnapore): Majority of the Ministers are also absent. Sir, it is better if we take it up a bit later (Interruptions)
[Translation]
MR. SPEAKER: We will not do voting now. Lobbies will be got cleared and division will toke place thereafter.
(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. SPEAKER: Please be seated in your seats. Let us hear what Mr.
Inder Jit has to say.
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, as a disciplined Member of the Congress party, I accept the decision of the majority of the party and the Government to bring forward this Bill. Nevertheless, I would like to make a few
13 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
points and record my protest.
My first point is my great disappointment with all sections of the House, particularly with the leader of the Opposition as well as the leaders of other parties who have once again thrown all conventions to the winds in their anxiety to play politics and past forward politically motivated bill. They have completely jettisoned the healthy principle where under. This Constitution Amendment Bill should have been referred to a Joint Select Committee or at least a Select Committee. I cannot see the great urgency of pushing this Bill by suspending all our rules and throwing all conventions overboard.
Heavens would not have fallen nor heavens would have been gained. Sir, I would therefore, still plead that the sensible thing to do would have been...
[Translation]
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA (South Delhi): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order... (Interruptions)
[English]
SHRI RAM NAIK (Bombay North): Sir, I am also on a point of order MR. SPEAKER: Let me here his point of order.
[Translation]
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: After listening to everything the Bill has been presented and you have asked for voting. I want to know whether discussion will start after asking for voting...(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. SPEAKER: Mr, Naik, you can formulate your point of order now.
SHRI RAM NAIK: Sir, I am supporting his point of order fully because once you have taken a decision that the lobbies should be cleared after which, only the procedure of voting can take place and there can be no
14 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
debate. That is why, according to rules, he cannot speak. If that rule has also been suspended, then that is another matter. As per the existing rules, the House has to express a unanimous view that this rule too has been suspended.
MR. SPEAKER: I will give my ruling on this point.
SHRI RAM NAIK: The point is that once the process of voting has started, no debate can take place.(Interruptions)
[Translation]
MR. SPEAKER: The House cannot run if everyone wants to run it in his own way. You have raised a point or order; it would have been good had it not been raised. What so ever we are doing today is unusual to some extent but after the consent of all the leaders and hon. Members we are trying to do so. Now, when the time of voting come, most of the hon. Members did not know that voting is being one now. therefore, we have to see the strength of Members. This thing has come up after clearing the lobby. Therefore, I said that I will give a chance to clear the lobby once more. Till then it will continue.
[English]
SHRI LAL. K. ADVANI (Gandhi Nagar): We can have the voting in the afternoon or an hour later. As things stand, there is no point in having a debate.
MR. SPEAKER: Now, we should not shut out his say. Please bear in mind the sensitive nature of the subject.
SHRI LAL. K. ADVANI: I agree.(Interruptions)
SHRI INDER JIT: Personally, I hold Advaniji in high regard. Times out of number, he has stood up and valiantly stood up, to uphold certain conventions. And therefore, I am disappointed that on such a grave issue as the amendment to Constitution, he has advocated that all rules be suspended. Even
15 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
the Bill has not been circulated! There is to be no discussion on the Bill. Normally and according to the healthiest conventions established during the time of Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, every Constitution Amendment Bill was invariably sent to a Select Committee or a Joint Select Committee. We should not have jettisoned these healthy conventions.
MR. SPEAKER: One thing that you may kindly take into account is that Gorkhali is also a part of Nepali. Please do not go to the procedural part of it.
SHRI INDER JIT: No, Sir, procedure is important and more so with respect to this prarticular Bill. This Bill should have been referred to a Joint Select Committee or a Select Committee in view of the fact that since Shrimati Bhandari brought forward her Bill, demands for inclusion of serveral other languages have come up. There are demands for the inclusion of Dogri, Santhali, Maithili, Bhojpuri, Rajasthani and Pali and many other languages too. Therefore, I would say that we should have adopted the right and healthy convention of taking a total view on all these languages. The matter could easily have been referred to a Select Committee or a Joint Select Committee, and heavens would not have fallen. This, Sir, is my first point.
MR. SPEAKER: Don't go on with procedure. Come to the main point.
SHRI INDER JIT: My plea to the Government is not to jettision and not to trample upon healthy conventions and even now take the matter to a Joint Select Committee so that the Government would then come back with a total view on this highly emotive issue.
SHRI A. CHARLES (Trivandrum): I have a point of order.
MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down.
[Translation]
Please take your seat and let me conduct the proceedings.
16 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
[English]
Please come to the main point.
SHRI INDER JIT: I am coming to it Sir.
MR. SPEAKER: Please bear in mind that the Minister has said that Nepali, Gorkhali and the languages recognised by other names also are recognised.
SHRI INDER JIT: I made my first point on procedure, which, I think should have been pursued. My second point is particularly in regard to the subject of Gorkha Bhasha, Not Gorkhali. Sir, I want to bring to your attention once again the fact that an August 23, 1981 the Government of India headed by Shri Rajiv Gandhi entered into a solemn understanding and a settlement with the GNLF under this, Memorandum of the Gorkha Phasha Settlement, was acknowledged as the language of the settled Garkihas of India. In fact it is today the official language of the autonomous Darjeeling Garkha Hill Council.
This is their official language. Therefore, Sir, my view is that the Home Minister should have taken notice of this fact. It is not just an area...
[Translation]
SHRI GUMAN MAL LODHA (Pali): Mr. Speaker, Sir, when there was a discussion on this yesterday you had said that I would also be given an opportunity to speak. Is there no other language than Nepali. Let me speak please. You go for voting after the clearance of the lobby..
[English]
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, I venture to submit that...
SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishanganj): Sir, I would like to know whether the hon. Member is speaking on behalf of the party to which he belongs or on his own. I do not know whether his name was submitted to the Chair by his party whip.
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, I did not know that
17 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
Shri Shahabuddin has become the Whip of my party.
[Translation]
SHRI GUMAN MAL LODHA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday also, I said that we I should also be given an opportunity to speak when you had assured to give it today. You give me an opportunity since I want to say a few things about Rajasthani language which is spoken by 8 crore people.
[English]
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, as I said yesterday, I did mention the fact of the Memorandum of Settlement.
MR. SPEAKER: Is it necessary to repeat?
SHRI INDER JIT: I am not repeating. I want to specifically read out that particular portain because I did not read it out yesterday. I spoke from memory. Para 3 of the Memorandum of Settlement signed between the GNLF and the Rajiv Gandhi Government on August 23, 1988 stated as follows:
"Inclusion of Gorkha language in the 8th Schedule of the Constitution."
it said further:
The Government of India is of the view that inclusion of more languages in the 8th Schedule of the Constitution would create repercussions and reactions. It is the endeavour of the Government to develop the cultural and literary heritage of all languages irrespective of their inclusion in the 8th Schedule. " So, this position was accepted. The important aspect of this is that the name 'Gorkha Language' was accepted.
In view of this Chavan Sahib has mentioned that there is Gorkha Bhasha in
18 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
some areas. It is not a question of some areas. It is the official language of the autonomous of Darjeeling Gorkha Hill Council. This should be acknowledeged because the Council represents some 8 lakh to 10 lakh of people. You cannot ignore that.
[Translation]
SHRI GUMAN MAL LODHA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, my request was turned down by you on the plea that there was to be two hours debate on that language the next day, but you are not ready to listern a single word about Rajasthani language. I would like to submit that you should give me at least a little time to express my views.
SHRI INDER JIT: Therefore, I would urge the home Minister, in his concluding remarks, to make it abundantly clear this aspect.
I would now like to make one other point.
MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now. You can see the fall out of your speech. You have made all the points. It is not necessary now.
You should cooperate. Yesterday, I gave you enough time, and you made all the points. It is a matter of record. Even today you have spoken.
You know the sense of the House. In democracy sense of the House in very important.
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, I would like to make one other point.
MR. SPEAKER: No, please. You just see the fall out.
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, I wish to say that.
SHRI KARTIKESWAR PATRA (Balasore): Sir, I am on a point of order.
MR. SPEAKER: I am not hearing your point of order.
SHRI INDER JIT: Sir, I would like to make one other point for the consideration of the Government (Interruptions)
19 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
MR. SPEAKER: Why don't you complete, Inder Jit ji? I am not hearing him.
SHRI INDER JIT: The point which I want to make is about the question on 8th Schedule. I am not sure to what extent it serves any utility. I would like the government to include all the languages of the country in this schedule and give them total encouragement rather than limit the list to a few languages. In fact, the Eighth Schedule has created manyproblems, sparked off many agitations. We should therefore, have to take a fresh look at it and decide whether it is really serving any purpose.
Article 351 of the Constitution, under which the Eighth Schedule comes, relates to a directive for the development of Hindi language.
This Article also states that the Union should secure the enrichment of Hindi by using expressions used in Hindustani and in the other Eighth Schedule languages. So, why do we limit the enrichment of Hindi only to a few languages.
I would finally and in conclusion, in bowing to your wishes, say that the Government has not been adequately fair to Gorkha Bhasha I support this Bill but with strong reservations and under strong protest.
So, I would again urge Mr. Chavan, in his concluding remarks, to make this point clear and give adequate importance to Gorkha Bhasha.
(Interruptions)....... as the official language of the Darjeeling Hill areas.
[Translation]
SHRI GUMAN MAL LODHA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to remaind you that you always prevent whenever I try to speak. I want to make a brief submission.
[English]
Sir, we are supporting this Bill. Let Nepali,
20 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
let Manipuri and let Gorkhali become part of the Eighth Schedule.
[Translation]
We do not have any objection. We are supporting it. For the time being we withdraw all the amendments that we have referred to Select Committee for knowing the public opinion on the issue of including Rajasthani language in the Eighth Schedule. I am, however, speaking with deep anguish that the hon. Minister for Home Affairs made no consideration about the Rajasthani language which is spoken by as many as eight crore people where as konkani language has been included. I would like to submit that you should please take decision about Rajasthani language atleast before the ensuring session. The Ministry of Rajasthan has sent its recommendation through a letter to include the Rajasthani language in the 8th Schedule of the Constitution. Our hon. Minister for Home Affairs should also assure that Rajasthani languages would be included in the list of language of the 8th schedule in the coming session. Thanks.
[English]
MR. SPEAKER: Before I put the motion for consideration of Bill to vote, I would like to say that this being a Constitution (Amendment) Bill, voting has to be by division.
Let the Lobbies be cleared-
MR. SPEAKER: Now the lobbies have been cleared.
The question is:
" That the Bill further to amend the Constitution of India be taken into consideration.
The motion was adopted
21 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
The Lok Sabha Divided
11.49 hrs
DIV.NO. 3
AYES
Acharia, Shri Basudeb
Adaikalaraj, Shri L.
Advani, Shri Lal K.
Agnihotri, Shri Rajendra
Ahamed, Shri E.
Ahirwar, Shri Anand
Ahmed, Shri Kamaluddin
Ajit Singh, Shri
Anbarasu Era, Shri
Antulay, Shri A.R.
Arunachalam, Shri M.
Ayub Khan, Shri.
Baitha, Shri Mahendra
Bala, Dr. Asim
Balayogi, Shri G.M.C.
Baliyan, Shri N.K.
Bandaru, Shri Dattatraya
Barman, Shri Palas
Barman, Shri Uddhab
Basu, Shri Anil
Basu, Shri Chitta
Berwa, Shri Ram Narain
Bhagat, Shri Vishweshwar
22 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
Bhagey Gobardhan, Shri
Bhakta, Shri Manoranjan
Bhandari, Shrimati Dil Kumari
Bhargava, Shri Girdhari Lal
Bhattacharaya, Shrimati Malini
Bhoi, Dr. Krupasindhu
Bhonsle, Shri Prataprao B.
Bhonsle, Shri Tejsinghrao
Birbal, Shri
Brar, Shri Jagmeet Singh
Checko, Shri P.C
Chakraborty, Prof. Susanta
Chandra Shekhar, Shri
Chandrakar, Shri Chandulal
Chandrashekhar, Shrimati Maragatham
Charles, Shri A.
Chatterjee, Shri Nirmal Kanti
Chatterjee, Shri Somnath
Chaure, Shri Bapu Hari
Chavan, Shri Prithviraj D.
Chavda, Shri Harisnh
Chavda, Shri Ishwarbhai Khodabhai
Chhotey Lal, Shri
Chinta Mohan, Dr.
Choudhary, Shri Ram Tahal
Choudhury, Shri Lokanath
Choudhury, Shri Saifuddin,
23 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
Chowdhary, Shrimati Santosh
Dadahoor, Shri Gurcharan Singh
Dalbir Singh, Shri
Damor, Shri Somjibhai
Das, Shri Dwaraka Nath
Das, Shri Jitendra Nath
Das, Shri Ram Sunder
Datta, Shri Amal
Deka, Shri Probin
Dennis, Shri N.
Deora, Shri Murli
Deshmukh, Shri Anantrao
Deshmukh, Shri Ashok Anandrao
Dev, Shri Sontosh Mohan
Devarajan, Shri B.
Devei, Shrimati Bibhu Kumari
Dhumal, Prof. Prem
Dighe, Shri Sharad
Dome, Dr. Ram Chandra
Drona, Shri Jagat Vir Singh
Dubey, Shrimati Saroj
Farook, Shri M.O.H.
Fatmi, Shri Mohammad Ali Ashraf
Fernandes, Shri George
Fernandes, Shri Oscar
Gaikwad, Shri Udaysingrao
Galib, Shri Gurcharan Singh
24 Const. (78th Amend.) Bill
Gangwar, Dr. P.R.
Gangwar, Shri Santosh Kumar
Gautam, Shrimati Sheela
Gavit, Shri Manikrao Hodiya
Gehlot, Shri Ashok
Ghangare, Shri Ramchandra Marotrao
Ghatowar, Shri Paban Singh
Giri, Shri Sudhir
Girija Devi, Shrimati
Giriyappa, Shri C.P. Mudala
Gomango, Shri Giridhar
Gowda, Prof. K. Venkatagiri
Gudadinnl, Shri B.K.
Gundewar, Shri Vilasrao Nagnathrao
Gupta, Shri Indrajit
Hooda, Shri Bhupinder Singh
Hossain, Shri Syed Masudal
Imchalemba, Shri
Inder Jit, Shri
Jaffer Sharief, Shri C.K.
Jakhar, Shri Balram
Janarthanan, Shri M.R. Kadambur
Jangde, Shri Khelan Ram