RE: USE OF WORD "BHANGI" BY THE PRIME MINISTER
[Translation]
SHRI MANGAL RAM PREMI (Bijnor): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister has used the word "Bhangi" during his speech delivered from the rampart of Red Ford on 15th August. Sir, it has hurt the feelings of crores of people and they have gone on strike in many places and staging dharnas. It is the worst situation. I would like to ask the Prime Minister whether it was necessary for him to use the word "Bhangi"? When the Prime Minister of a country use such word then each and every child in the entire country will freely use this word.
Sir, regarding the scheme under which the Prime Minister has used this word, I have written a letter to Shri Sita Ram Kesari to change the name of the scheme in which "Bhangi" word has been used. I had suggested that the name of the scheme should be "Safai Karamchari Mukti Pariyojana" in place of "Bhangi Mukti Pariyojana". Sir, with these words I would like to urge upon the Prime Minister to come in the House and express his regret over this..(Interruptions)
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA (South Delhi): The Prime Minister should apologise..(Interruptions)..
SHRI KALKA DAS (Karol Bagh): The
47 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
Prime Minister should not have used this word..(Interruptions) [English]
SHRI P.C. THOMAS (Muvattupuzha): Sir, I want to raise an
important matter. The F.C.I. employees are on dharna. (Interruptions) It is a serious issue. (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Kindly resume your seats?
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May I request the hon. Members to resume their seats?
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Kindly respond to my request first. Shri Thomas, I request you. There should be an order in the House. If, at the same time, four to five Members were to stand up and speak, where do we go? What is the impression that we create in the House? It serves no purpose.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Kindly hear me. If Members speak one after the other, all can be heard.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Nothing goes on record.
Please hear me. Should we not follow certain norms in the House?
You please survey the things that have taken place.Has it served any purpose? Have you achieved anything? One after the other, all of you were to raise if all were to speak less so that
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------
*Not recorded.
**Expunged as ordered by the Chair.
48 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
subsequent speakers also shall have the opportunity of ventilating the grievances of their constituencies, and also of matters of national interest. If it should go like this, nothing serves the purpose and our reporters also cannot take the report properly. You are experiencing it. Immediately when your speech is over, they have to chase you and catch hold of you for corrections. These are the practical difficulties that our reporters are facing and it shall have to be reported properly. Please cooperate.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA (South Delhi):The Prime Minister should beg apology before the House for using such word and the country as well. Why did he use this word in his speech..(Interruptions) SHRI TARACHAND KHANDELWAL (Chandni Chowk): It is an offence under the law.
SHRI MANGAL RAM PREMI: The matter should be discussed in the House.
SHRI KALKA DAS (Karol Bagh): The way the Prime Minister used the word from the rampart of the Red Fort is an offence under the law. I have the Civil Procedure Code with me. It has been clearly mentioned in it that the use of such words is an offence and there is also a provision of taking punitive action. Since the Prime Minister has used this word from the rampart of Red Fort, action should be taken against him on the basis of this Code. If this Act has been enacted properly, the Prime Minister should be punished. (Interruptions)
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: The
49 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
Prime Minister should apologise before the House. (Interruptions) SHRI KALKA DAS: He must be punished as per the existing laws of the land or he should beg apology from the rampart of the Red Fort.
(Interruptions)
SHRI DATTA MEGHE (Nagpur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,the word which is being discussed by hon. Members is unparliamentary. He has used here unparliamentary word. This word should be expunged from the proceedings of the House. (Interruptions)
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA:Why did the Prime Minister use this
unparliamentary word. He should apologize (Interruptions)
SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR (Chimur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, these are their crocodile tears. What the Prime Minister had called, it was not liked by them. Perhaps they did not try to understand it. You kindly tell us, in what reference he had used this word. (Interruptions) [English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Kindly resume your seats.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: The word which the Prime Minister used was an abuse. He should beg apology for it. (Interruptions)
SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR: Tell us, in what reference he has spoken that word. (Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This will not
50 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
serve the purpose. The time is being lost, it serves no purpose.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, Please sit down. Kindly resume your seats.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I do not agree with you. How does your
shouting help you? There is a proper procedure for it.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now, Mr. Vishwanath Pratap Singh may speak.
(Interruptions)
DR KARTIKESWAR PATRA (Balasore): Sir, there is no law and order in Orissa for the last 10 days. (Interruptions]
SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: Sir, the Prime Minister must come to the House immediately. (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is not the method to ventilate the grievances. Suppose somebody had said something outside, there is a regular procedure and according to that, you can move a resolution.
Otherwise, more shouting will not serve any purpose.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH (Fatehpur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, an insult has been made from the rampart of Red Fort and it is not being allowed to be raised in the House. We will not tolerate this type of attitude.(Interruptions) we will move the Court...
(Interruptions) we will file a case against you..(Interruptions) We will file a
51 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
case against the Prime Minister.. (Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now, we will take up the Papers to be Laid on the Table.
(Interruptions)
12.36 hrs.
At this stage, Shri P.C. Thomas came and sat on the floor near the Table.
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Thomas, this is not the way to ventilate your grievance. Please go back to your seat.
(Interruptions)
12.37 hrs
At this stage, Shri P.C. Thomas went back to his seat
SHRI P.C. THOMAS: Sir, I never cry for a chance to speak like this. But this is a very serious issue that I would like to take up the matter here. So, I request you to please give me a few minutes to raise this very serious issue
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Thomas, you can speak afterwards. First, let V.P. Singhji speak and then Buta Singhji will speak. Then, you can speak.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have hardly 15 minutes at our disposal.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have called V.P. Singhji now and
afterwards, I will allow Buta Singhji.
52 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
(Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT(DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH AFFAIRS AND SPORTS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF WOMEN AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT)(KUMARI MAMTA BANERJEE): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this House is not the monopoly of any particular party.
You should give chance to our side also. (Interruptions)
SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR: Sir, they should not be allowed to cast any aspersion on the Prime Minister. (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
[Translation]
SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR: They are taking an irresponsible manner.
(Interruptions) You are shedding crocodile tears..(Interruptions).. It will not be tolerated. Why do you bring politics into it.
(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: All the people could have spoken by this time had there been no interruptions.
SHRI P.C. THOMAS: We do not quarrel for the opportunity given. I should also be given a chance.
DR. KARTIKESWAR PATRA: I have given a notice. Will you allow us?
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: We will not leave you like this. We will not allow the House to run. You are not allowing
53 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
us to raise the issue in the House. The Government is trying to suppress the voice of crores of people. They have been insulted. It will not be allowed to continue. When we want to ventilate their grievances, we are not allowed to speak. We will not tolerate the insult to crores of people in this way, in the House.
SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR: Will you continue to speak? We will not listen anything wrong which goes against the prime Minister ...
(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: My humble submission is, this kind of
procedure, this kind of exhibition of anger does not serve anypurpose.This is the House, each Member representing more than 10 lakhs of waters. Hardly you have got two days at your disposal. Lot of water has already flown under the bridge. We repent for it. At least, whatever time is available at our disposal, let us do justice.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will wait for five minutes.
If the House does not come to proper healthy order, then I shall take up regular subject. You should not afterwards ... (Interruptions) MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: How long can you go on like this? If you want to continue this for another half-an-hour, are we to waste our time here? No. It is not possible to tolerate indiscipline and disorder.
Kindly oblige. Let us hear what he says. Suppose, if there are some words which are not palatable, which are contrary to the parliamentary system, such words will be expunged. You need not have the fear.
(Interruptions)
54 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are expected to exercise patience.
[Translation]
SHRI KALKA DAS: Please call the Hon. Prime Minister here.
(Interruptions)
SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: The Hon. Prime Minister should immediately resign on this issue. (Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: If the Prime Minister has said something, under the regular rules, you can move through a motion. There is scope for that. There is a specific provision in the rules. Why should you not utilise such provisions? In this way, how does it help? How does it help? It certainly does not help your task. Kindly excuse me. I have requested Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singhji to speak. Afterwards, Shri Buta singh will speak. These two Hon'ble Members will speak.
Prof. K.V. Thomas, exhibiting your banner and pamphlets are against the rules. Whatever time you wanted to take, you have taken.
But anyhow let us forget about it.
Shri Dattatueya Bandarr, would you like to go on like this? How does it serve the purpose? It is now 15 minutes to one O'Clock. There is also criticism. Zero Hour is being extended beyond practice of this House.
I request Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singhji to speak. If anybody wants to talk, if Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh yields, then only you have got a right to speak. In the absence of it no one can speak.
Kindly oblige.
[Translation]
SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank
55 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
you ... (Interruptions) ... I would like to thank you for providing me an opportunity to give expression to the agonies of the oppressed class whose issue has been raised by the hon. Members in the House.
Sir, it is not only poverty that is associated with the fate of the poor, they are also a humiliated lot. Efforts have been made to provide to them a respectable position in society under the law and provisions of the Constitution. How much they get or do not get is a different concern but how much hurt they might have felt by the words of the Hon. prime Minister who adorns the highest position of the country. I do not want to go into the matter as to whether it was deliberate, intentional or not. But this much is certain that this words were offensive. Moreover, I would like to emphasize, Sir, that there cannot be anything more offensive than the fact that those words were uttered from the ramparts of the Red Fort on the eve of Independence Day. So the demand that has been made now has been made keeping in view the sentiments of the crores of people belonging to the oppressed class.Thousands of people have today gathered at the boat club. The Hon. Prime Minister should go there and should take back his words before them and should say sorry for what he uttered.
Otherwise, there is a provision in the law for that. He can be put behind bars under section 7 of the Indian Penal Code. This law is applicable not only to the poor, but it applies to the personsoccupying high offices also. Yesterday it was resolved by the Lucknow State unit of our party that if the Hon. Prime Minister does not beg paroon for what he uttered, the party would file a case against him under the aforesaid section of the law. We would seek permission of the Supreme Court in this regard.
Sir, we are not merely paying lip service but express our whole hearted support to this cause. The hon. Members are agitated because their sentiments are hurt and there-
56 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
fore they have raised the issue. Leave aside the sentiments of hon.
Members but the honour of crores of people belonging to the oppressed class of the country is at Stake and therefore they seek protection.
I would therefore request you to call the Hon. Prime Minister and ask him to beg pardon. This is my submission. With these words, I hope, that you would honour the sentiments of the people.
(Interruptions)
[English]
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are all senior-most hon'able Members of this House. Some hon'ble Members are here from the very beginning of the life of the Parliament. You shall have to follow certain norms.
Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh has advanced his argument. Shri Buta Singh will speak next. He will counteract it. let us hear him with patience.
(Interruptions)
[Translation]
SHRI BUTA SINGH (Jalore): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been trying since morning to draw the attention of this House to a very important issue, but in the meanwhile a controversy was raised. First of all I would like to place the issue for which I have been trying since morning. This House is well aware that Government has reverted as many as 104 officers belonging to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and when this issue was raised here, at that time the House was informed that this was done in compliance with an order of the Supreme Court. There was a debate on this issue in which the opposition leaders Shri V.P. Singh, Chatterjee Sahib, Shri Indrajeet Gupta, Shri Chandrashekhar, Shri Ram Vilas and myself participated. We all raised that issue unani-
57 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
mously. After a detailed discussion hon. Mr. Speaker promised to intervene and did intervene. A meeting was held in the chamber of Mr.
Speaker in which the viewpoint of Government was placed by the senior bureaucrats of the department and with the intervention of the hon.
Speaker it was decided that this issue should again be referred to the Supreme Court. That issue was again referred to the Supreme Court and it would be a pleasure for the Members of this House to know that the Supreme Court reverted its order and passed another order to restore the promotion of all the officers. (Interruptions)
SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: Smt. Margaret Alva should resign.
[English]
The Minister should resign. The Minister has misled the House. I support Buta Singhji. But the Minister should resign.
[Translation]
SHRI BUTA SINGH: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to extend a hearty thanks to the hon. Speaker on behalf of the country.
(Interruptions) who for the first time in the capacity of a Speaker intervened and was instrumental in restoring the promotion to such a large number of officers belonging to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. I also thank the Hon. Prime Minister for this. (Interruptions) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to refer to the controversy in the context of which the ex-Prime Minister Mr. V.P. Singh was telling by showing the copy of a law that the Hon. Prime Minister could be put behind bars. While the Hon. Prime Minister was speaking from the ramparts of the Red Fort he was just giving the details of the achievements of our party towards the eupliftment of
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58 Re. use of word "Bhangi" by the PM
the oppressed class and the poor. He referred to a scheme of the Government of India that is in force for the last 10 years and that was also in force during the regime of Mr. V.P. Singh. The name of that scheme is: Bhangi Trust Mukti Scheme. (Interruptions) We are equally sorry for the continuation of the words that have been pointed out by Shri Mangal Ram Premi and Shri Kalka Das. Such words should not be there in our constitution. (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF SURFACE TRANSPORT (SHRI JAGDISH TYTLER): In everything..
Please listen. He is telling that such words should not be there in the constitution. (Interruptions) Shri Buta Singh is telling that such words should not be there in the constitution. Why do you not listen? He said that those words should not be mentioned in the constitution. (Interruptions)