22.12.92 *t03

RE: SUPREME COURT'S JUDGEMENT ON RESERVATIONS IN PROMOTION FOR SCHEDULED CASTES AND SCHEDULED TRIBES

[Translation]

SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN (Rosera): Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your kind permission, I would like to draw the attention of the august House towards a very important matter related to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes which was raised by me in the House on 4th December with your kind approval. The Supreme Court gave a judgement in connection with the Mandal Commission. It is about the backward classes. As per the judgement reservation in promotions should be scrapped, after such a long period. This provision is meant for backward classes but I am distressed to say that on this pretext many state Governments are with drawing reservation in promotions in the case of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled

496 Re.Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C.

and S. T.

Tribes.

Just now, Shri Fotedar left the House. Today a list of 108 candidates for DM and MCH courses in the All India Institute of Medical Sciences has appeared but not a single candidate among them belongs to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The reason is that reservation was withdrawn in pursuance of the the 16th November judgement of the Supreme Court. I took up this matter with Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad on the 4th instant, eighteen days ago from today. We raised this issue in the house and hon. Members from all parties supported it and demanded that the Government should clarify that the judgement on the Mandal Commission is meant for backward classes only. Shri Somnath Chatterjee and all other senior colleagues had intervened at that time demanding that the Government should state clearly that it would not affect the interests of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in any case. If they are going to be effected, then the Government should immediately issue a circular that it would not be made applicable to them. (Interruptions) At present nowhere Departmental Promotion Committees (D.P.C.) are sitting. They are all waiting for the Parliament session to come to an end. The session of the House ends on 23rd and the D.P.Cs. will sit from 24th to 30th Reservations in promotions in their case will be withdrawn. It is not a questions concerning any particular party. The men in the Administration are trying to sabotage this constitutional provision which has been in force in the country for the last 45 years. in the wake of this judgement. Therefore,we want the Government to make an announcement to the effect that the present system would continue. We want to know it through you from the Government.We also raised this point in the Business Advisory Committee. The Government should not say that it would consult the Home Minister. State Governments and the concerned Ministry. The session of the House comes to an end

497 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C.and S.T.

tomorrow. Therefore, we seek your protection for this constitutional provision and the Government should clarify its position today in this regard.

SHRI CHANDRA JEET YADAV (Azamgargh): Mr. Speaker, Sir, Shri Ram Vilasji has raised a very important question in the House. Sir, this whole episode is related to the reservation policy. I feel that till now the Government has not made up its mind on this question of national importance. After such a long period this question has again come up before the nation and it is boggling the minds of people. The Government should, therefore, understand its importance and take it seriously. If no timely decision is taken on this question, the nation will have to face another agitation and its concequences. The bureaucracy in the country is still in the grip of the people who do not want to devolve power and administration to the poor and the weaker sections of the society. Some provisions have been made in our Constitution for this purpose. I would like to request Ghulam Saheb to kindly pay attention to it because none other than him is present here. They always go to the Lobby. Then whom should we address..

(Interruptions)to whom should I say, if there is nobody on the ruling benches to hear us. Then what is the use of speaking here.

[English]

MR. SPEAKER: Everything you say is recorded. Please continue.

(Interruptions)

[Translation]

SHRI CHANDRA JEET YADAV: Shri Jakhar is also not paying

attention. Whenever a matter is raised in the House, the Cabinet Minister should pay attention to it. Whenever a serious matteris raised in the House, it is not taken due note. This attitude 498 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

of the Government is responsible for the devastation taking place in the country.

Today, I am once again raising this serious question. The provisions made in the Constitution are being diluted and it is being done by the people, who are responsible for running the Government.

The issue raised by Shri Ram Vilas Paswan is very important. Everybody knows that Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes have been granted reservation in the Constitution but after such a long time ever 8 percent reservation is not completed and no efforts are made in this direction. Whenever this question is raised in the House, it is said that the Government is concerned about it and taking serious steps, going to take steps, but in fact nothing is done in this regard. I shall say a few words about Mandal Commission later, but first of all I would take the issue of taking away the rights of reservation of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in promotions, on the basis of judgement on the Mandal Commission. They used to get benefits of reservation in promotion also.

When this was published in the newspapers, it was said that the cases of promotions of Scheduled Castes ans Scheduled Tribes would be affected by it. I talked to the hon. Law Minister over phone the same day. Unfortunately he is not present here. He told me that Supreme Court was only considering the correctness of notification issued by the janata Dal Government vis-a-vis the Congress Government. It took a decision that the notification issued during the period of V.P. Singh Government is correct and the notification of Congress Government is incorrect. The decision of the Supreme Court in no way affects reservation in promotion for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.

On the one hand the Law Minister says this and on the other hand a conspiracy is being hatched all over the country to withdraw reservation in promotion for Scheduled

499 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

Castes and Scheduled Tribes, on this pretext. I feel, this will be a very serious matter. Tomorrow, before adjourning the House the Government should make a statement that the right of reservation to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in promotion would continue and it would not be affected by this judgement. The Government will have to take steps accordingly in this regard.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with this, I would like to say a few words on Mandal Commission for which I had given a notice. The Supreme Court in its judgement on Mandal Commission has justified the provisions of reservation for backward classes and directed the Government to expedite its implementation. Before the House adjourns tomorrow, the Government should make a detailed statement as to how it is going to implement the recommendations of the Mandal Commission in the Country.

[English]

SHRI MUKUL BALKRISHNA WASNIK (Buldana): Mr. Speaker, Sir, even after 45 years of independence and even after implementing the policy of reservations for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in jobs and promotions, till today we have a very very huge backlog of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in Class I and Class II jobs in the Central Government and State Government services.

Even when we have a policy, the condition today is such that the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes do not get the benefit of such a policy and it is because of this, we can imagine what can be the repercussions on the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes after the Supreme Court judgment which said that there would be no reservation in promotions for Scheduled Castes and Schedulesd Tribes.

(Interruptions)

SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: It is being

500 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

interpreted.

But that is not there.. (Interruptions)

SHRI VISWANATH PRATAP SINGH (Fatehepur): That is not there.

(Interruptions)

SHRI MUKUL BALAKRISHNA WASNIK: I Understand that But Sir, the repercussions will be extremely serious. With due respect to the Supreme Court, I feel that when the matter concerning the Mandal Commission was referred to the Supreme Court, such a mention should not have found place. Therefore, I would share the feelings expressed by Shri Ram Vilas Paswan and Shri Chandra Jeet Yadav. I would join with them in demanding from the Government to immediately notify to all the concerned Departments and the State Governments so that they do not make wrongful interpretation and put the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in a difficult situation.

I would like to inform the Government that by a simple notification, the job would not be over. Rather the Government should come forward with a Constitution Amendment Bill where reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in jobs and promotions should be included in the 9th Schedule of the Constitution so that there is no possibility of any wrongful interpretation of this very important issue. If this problem is not tackled immediately, then I would like to tell the Government that there will be a very serious reaction from the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and all those people who are interested in the upliftment of these downtrodden sections of the society.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bolpur): Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is

unfortunate that in sensitive matters the Government cannot make up its mind. This was raised earlier as he said on the 4th of December.

501 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

The judgement of the Supreme Court has created some doubts whereas the doubts should not have been there because it relates only to the backward classes. Then, a large section of the people of this country, are under an apprehension. The Government's conduct is also reinforcing their suspicion and their agony. I have requested on that day the Government should make up its mind quickly and come out with a clarification that it does not apply to the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.

Sir, when already we are having tensions of different types the country is being divided on one basis or the other-why should you add to the tensions in this country? Does the Government want another Government to be opened? The people will become restive. There will be trouble. There will be tension. We are now passing a very serious grave crisis in this country. I demand the Government-you cannot do this; you must make up your mind-to give this clarification. There is no discussion with anybody. We do not know whether the Government has felt any difficulty and they wanted to discuss with anybody. But our views had been made known earlier on the floor of the House.

Therefore, I demand that the Government should come out with a categorical statement to remove the misgivings in the minds of those people and state categorically what is their interpretation of the judgement.

[Translation]

SHRI SATYNARAYAN JATIYA (Ujjain): Mr. Speaker, Sir, this issue is quite serious, though there exist provisions in the Constitution with regard to giving better treatment and securing some rights to the people of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, they have all along been neglected. As a result of it, these people have not been able to join the mainstream of the nation even after 40 years of independence. This is the reason that there is discontent and 502 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

remorseness amona these sections of society. Until the Government issues orders and announces a time-bound programme for securing rights enshrined in the Constitution to these people, they will not be able to enjoy these rights.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, through you, I would like to request the Government to announce a time-bound programme for the implementation of the provisions of reservations enshrined in the Constitution.

"Pratibandh Lage Jeene Par, Samata Ka Adhikar Nahin, Uska Jeena Bhee Kya Jeena, Jisko Manav Ka Adhikar Nahia". I would like to submit that the Government must make every arrangement to secure right of humanity as provided in the constitution to these people.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (Barh): Mr. Speaker, Sir, though there is the provision of reservation of posts for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes in recruitment as per the provisions of the Constitution, yet a conspiracy is being suddenly hatched in the matter of abolition of reservations in promotions. On the plea of the Supreme Court judgement in the matter of the notification of reservation regarding the backward classes issued by the V.P. Singh Government.

The issue before him was not the issue of reservation and reservation in promotion for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. That is why, the judgement of the Supreme Court is not in the context of reservation for Scheduled Castes. It was in the context of backward classes. A well-planned conspiracy is being hatched to create differences between Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and backward classes of society which have developed a feeling to get the recommendations of the Mandal Commission implemented. The Government should come out with a clarification that the observation of the Supreme Court judgement regarding reservation in promotions does not apply to the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. The Government is delib-

503 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

erately not coming out with a clarification on this issue.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the month of December in all the Departments, meetings of the Departmental Promotion Committees are held. However, in all the Departments matters pertaining to the promotions of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes before the said Committees, will be kept in abeyance at every stage so as to create a feeling among the people of SCs/STs that since they have supported the Mandal Commission, they must suffer the consequences.

This is a well-planned conspiracy. I would like to submit that we would like to raise the issue of the Mandal Commission tomorrow and I also want that the Government may make a categorical statement that the judgement of the Supreme Court in Mandal Commission case will not affect the provision of reservation in promotions and that the people of SCs/STs will continue to enjoy this benefit. The Government may State it categorically that the judgement of the Supreme Court in the Mandal Commission case will be implemented within a period of four months. (Interruptions)

SHRI ARVIND NETAM (Kanker): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the entire nation has welcomed the judgement of the Supreme Court in the Mandal Commission case. I agree to the submission made by Shri Paswan. The judgement is creating a confusion in the country

(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is the attitude of the Central Government of this judgement need not be elaborated much.

SHRI ARVIND NETAM: This is a question of interpretation. This is the responsibility of the Government of India.

(Interruptions)

504 Re. Supereme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

MR. SPEAKER: Nobody can interpret the judgement of the court. It remains as it is.

(Interruptions)

SHRI ARVIND NETAM: It is the responsibility of the Government of India to interpret it. Some reports are being received from a number of State Governments and from the Central Government that some action is being taken which will affect the employees of SCs/STs in promotions since this judgement is there. The Government of India should clarify it. (Interruptions)

SHRI KARIYA MUNDA (Khunti) Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue raised by Shri Ram Vilas Paswan is very serious. Millions of Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes people are there in Government services and it appears to them that they are also being affected by the judgement of the Supreme Court in the Mandal Commission case. However, this must not happen and the Government of India should categorically state that the facility of reservation in promotions being extended to the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes since independence will continue to be extended to them. The announcement in this regard should be made before the session ends so that the apprehensions in the mind of people are removed.

MR. SPEAKER: Alright, you have made your point.

SHRI KARIA MUNDA: There should not be any adverse impact on the reservation in their promotions.

SHRI SURAJ MANDAL (Godda): Whenever the issue of reservations for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes arises.......

MR. SPEAKER: There is no need for

505 Re. Supreme Court's Judgement on Reservations in Promotion for S.C. and S.T.

making lengthy speeches. You have to speak just on the judgement.

SHRI SURAJ MANDAL: These people speak on every issue. I have just got up to say something on this. I have not even started.

MR. SPEAKER: That's why I am requesting you.

SHRI SURAJ MANDAL: How do you know when I have not even started my speech that it will be quite long?

MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down.

[English]

I am watching that some of the Members when given the time, do not speak on the topic. They do not come to the point. There are other Members who want to speak and then the Members from the back benches say that they should be given time. This is not proper. You shall have to do justice to other Members also.

[Translation]

SHRI SURAJ MANDAL: I have just started and you are saying that I need not make a lengthy speech.

[English]

MR. SPEAKER:I have many other topics on the agenda.

[Translation]

SHRI SURAJ MANDAL: I would like to submit that the backlog of vacancies reserved for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes has not been cleared as yet. Now it is apprehended that it will not be cleared on the pretext of the Supreme Court judgement. When facilities have to be given,


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