07.08.92 *t32

CONSTITUTION (SCHEDULED TRIBES) (UTTAR PRADESH) ORDER (AMENDMENT) BILL (Amendment of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat [English]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now we shall take up the Constitution (Scheduled Tribes) (Uttar Pradesh) Order (Amendment) Bill. Shri Bhawan Shankar Rawat may move that the Bill be taken into consideration.

[Translation]

SHRI BHAWAN SHANKAR RAWAT (Agra): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:

"That the Bill to arnend the Constitution (Scheduled Tribes) (Uttar Pradesh) Order, 1967 be taken into consideration".

Sir, I am moving this Constitution (Scheduled Tribes) Order (Amendment Bill). It was felt necessaryto bring forward this Bill because even after such a long gap of achieving independence, we could not decide as to which are the castes in the society that should be included and absorbed as Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and backward castes and provided various facilities. They are being treated differently in different States in the country. A very ridiculous instance came to my notice when I came to know that in a particular part which is called old Himachal Pradesh Gaddis and Gujars are considered Scheduled Tribes but they have not been included in the list of Scheduled Tribes in the new areas of Himachal Pradesh. People belonging to the same castes in the same State are being treated in two different ways. The Central Government had enacted a law for the Scheduled Castes.

471 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

[Sh. Bhawan Shankar Rawat]

[English]

"Extremely social, educational and economic backwardness arising out of the traditional practice of untouchability."

[Translation]

All such communities will be covered under Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.

[English]

"Indications of primitive trade, distinctive culture, geographical isolation, shyness of contact with the community at large and backwardness."

[Translation]

These criteria were fixed. The most important thing in respect of Scheduled Caste and the Scheduled Tribes is that the condition of the caste who have been included in the list of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and backward classes should be evaluated and reviewed. Apart from it, there are 60 castes in the whole country whose representations are pending and the people belonging to these castes have made a demand that they should be included in the list of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and backward classes. They have not been included in these lists. The political parties here talk about various political attractions either in the name of Mandal Commission or on other basis but it is very unfortunate that the castes which should have been included in the list of Scheduled Tribes have not been included. This sorry state of affair does not relate to a particular political regime. The Banjaras are making a constant demand for including them in the list of Scheduled Tribes. They have not been included in the list of Scheduled Tribes in Uttar Pradesh but in Bihar and Orissaa they come under Scheduled Tribes. In 1988, my friend Shri Syed Shahabuddin, who is not at present in the House at the moment, had put an

472 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

Unstarred Question to the then Deputy Welfare Minister, Shrimati Sumati Oraon in reply to which she had said that the representation is under consideration, she had also given indications that a comprehensive list of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes was also likely to bedrawn. She also said that.

[English]

"Further, any amendment in the existing list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes can be done only through an Act of Parliament in view of Articles 341 (2) and 342 (2) of the Constitution."

[Translation]

Since 1988 Government after Governments changed. Prime Ministers changed Different political parties emerged and disappeared, but none of them or their Government could find time to provide some facilities to Banjaras or other castes in the stream of national development.

They could not provide them any benefit from the Constitution and work for their economic and social development. Later, there was an hon.

Member in 1990, Shri Ajit Jogi, I think he is still there. He had put an Unstarred Question on. 23.3. 1990 to the then hon. Labour and Welfare Minister, Shri Ram Vilas Paswan but he had also given a stereo type reply.

[English]

"A Cabinet notice on the comprehensive revision of the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes was prepared and submitted to the Cabinet of the previous Government for their consideration. The Cabinet, in their meeting held on 26.12. 1988, had deferred the matter."

[Translation]

People talk of Mandal Commission, Even they did not brother to accept the proposals

473 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

of the previous Government to wipe out the tears of the poor. Not only this they also said:

[English]

"The present Government is examining afresh all the proposals/recommendations/suggestions etc. received in this regard. Further, any amendment to the existing list of Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes..."

[Translation]

They also gave the same stereo-type reply that a law will have to enacted for that. After all who prevented them from enacting a law.

Today also the Banjaras are moving from pillar to post but there is none to come to their rescue. Even today, if you cover a distance of one Kilometre from here you will see that men and women of Banjara community are sitting on a dharna at the Boat Club. Today's and yesterday's newspapers have reported that they launched a hunger strike but no heed is being paid to their demands. There are Ghosia, Bakasa, Jaunsari Raji and Tharu tribes un Uttar Pradesh who like the Banjaras do not live at a place permanently. These communities are covered by the norms the Government has prescribed for backward classes and Scheduled Tribes. Therefore, I would like to submit that this Bill should be passed. In this connection I have talked to hon.

members of the ruling party and also discussed with the hon. Welfare Minister. A year ago, when I came here after having been elected, some people of the Banjara Community came to me for leading their deputation. The hon. Minister assured me not to worry for this and gave a hint that a Bill was likely to be brought forward. Since 1988 many Governments came and went but this demand of theirs could not be fulfilled. Since the Government does not have time to bring forward a Bill and to fulfill their demands I have brought forward this Bill. I would like that this Bill should be passed so that the Banjaras could be included in the list of Scheduled Castes and their children could avail of the benefits of reservation.

474 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

I would like to make yet another submission. There is always a hue and cry on Mandal Commission. At the same time a lot is spoken about the Scheduled Castes. My submission is that, no matter whether the Government provides the facilities or but it should not disgrace us. I come from Agra. There if the people of Jatav community are addressed as "Chamars" it is considered an abuse. If you have got something to give us, all right, give it. If you do not give please do not hurt our self-respect. I have seen their order. I want to show you the list of the Delhi Administration. I want to show the Constitution Union Territory Scheduled Castes order 1951. In the census of 1981 against Scheduled Castes No. 2 the "Jatav samaj" has been written as "Jatav Chamar". Column 10 may also be seen. i want to say with full responsibility. If the people in the whole of the country especially the Jatav in Western U.P. come to know about it they will create a turmoil. It is very unfortunate that right from Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru's Government to Raja Vishwanath Pratap Singh's and Shri Chandrashekhar's Government no one has brotherhood to correct it. It is a disgrace to self-respect of the Jatav community. It is written at column 10 as "Chamar, Chamar. Chamar, Jatav Chamar." Our Jatavs' are not prepared to be addressed as "Jatav Chamar". Therefore, I give a warning to supporters of Scheduled Castes and politicalleaders that people who have been neglected in the Hindu Society due to historical reasons will make progress with the facilities provided to them under the Constitution framed by Babasaheb Bhimrao Ambedkar with self- respect. Therefore, I demand that the word Chamar or Jatav Chamar should be deleted and in its place only Jatav should go. If it is not done then this news will spread all over the country and an unprecedented crisis will be created which will be beyond the control of the Government.

With these words I conclude and once again I would like to tell all those who raise the solgan of social justice that the same things have been given in the recommendations of the Mandal Commission. The Commission recommends that they should be included in the list of 475 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

[Sh. Bhawan Shankar Rawat]

Scheduled Tribes. People paid attention to recommendations to the Mandal Commission for the sake of votes but they did not get time that the Banjaras can be included in the list of the Scheduled Castes as has been recommended by the Mandal Commission. These Banjaras and other backward communities of society who need protection are now in such a plight that they are ready to call themselves Scheduled Castes and Scheduled tribes. They are really under such circumstances that they are ready to be treated as Scheduled Castes. If their condition is taken into consideration, they come under the norms and rules announced by the Government. Once a review of all these castes should be made and after secutiny, all those communities that are backward and who need help from all of you as well as from the administration should be included in order to give a practical shape to the spirit of the Constitution. The entire list should be reviewed afresh and social protection provided to the needy and backward.

16.00 hrs.

With these words I would like to make an appeal again that this Bill should be taken in right spirit by the Government without making a political game out of it. The Government should do it. Indecidently there is the Government of the same party today. In the year 1992, there was the Government of the National Front and Janata Dal combine.

So far as our party is concerned our leader Shri Lal Krishna Advani said it long back that this should be done. I would therefore like to make an appeal that the Bill should be passed unanimously.

[English]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Motion moved:

"that the Bill to amend the Constitution (Scheduled Tribes) (Uttar Pradesh Order, 1967, be taken in to consideration."

476 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

[Translation]

SHRI MOHAN SINGH (DEORIA): Mr. Chairman, Sir, a very good

amendment has been presented by Mr. Rawat on a very specific question.

Under the provisions of the Indian Constitution a list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes was made by the Government of Uttar pradesh in 1967. There are many anomalies in that list. There are many communities that are Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes; but they have not been included in the list. The suggestion is therefore very apt and I support it.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, there is a Banjara Community in Uttar Pradesh.

On the basis of their culture and way of living this caste comes under the category of Scheduled Tribes. They are fit to be included in the list of Scheduled Tribes. If they are not included in it, it will be posing a hindrance in their progress.

I remember well that a Bill was brought in this august House by the Ministry of Welfare during the first session. It was brought in order to include some castes of Gujarat in the list of Scheduled Tribes. At that time many hon. Members from different states had suggested that there should a revision of the lists of their States also which are full of flaws. One point was raised at the time when the recommendations of the Mandal Commission were being implemented.

The Supreme Court directed the Ministry of Welfare at that time that afresh list of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, Backward Classes and most Backward Classes should be prepared. The Ministry of Welfare has prepared a fresh list under that directive. The hon. Minister also assured this House that a detailed and comprehensive Bill based on the list would be presented before this House. But in spite of that assurance, that Bill has not so been presented in this House.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, there is a Gond tribe in Uttar Pradesh. There are several anomalies about this tribe. In some districts it is treated as Scheduled Castes in other districts it is

477 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

treated as Backward Classe and while in yet other districts it is treated as Scheduled Tribe. Consequently, the district magistrates of different districts face problems in issuing caste certificates.

I would like to tell one thing more. In comparison to the census conducted 10 years back, there has now been a 3 to 4 percent increase in the number of Scheduled Castes Scheduled Tribes. It is guaranteed in the Constitution that there will be a delimitation after every census. But through a constitutional amendment in 1976, it was provided that delimitation would be done after the year 2000. There is a calculated conspiracy behind it. The conspiracy is that there might be a need of increasing the seats of Lok Sabha and State Assemblies if the proportion of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in the whole population goes up. There will then be need to increase reserved seats in Government services. This is the malintention. The point is that the Government will have to face pressure for increasing the percentage of reservation in Government Services had othercastes been included in Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. So the people of Brahmanical thought having a control on Government are at no cost ready to accept it. It is due to this longhatched conspiracy that the Government is declining to make any alteration in this list.

I, therefore, support this Bill and request the Government that the hon. Minister of Welfare should come forward in the House with a comprehensive Bill. There is an assurance from the hon. Minister of Welfare to this effect. The Ministry of Welfare had conducted a survey throughout the country and the implementation of the recommendations of the Mandal Commission. I would like to request that on the basis of that survey there should be fresh assessment of the numbers of backward classes most backward classes, scheduled castes,... and other oppressed classes and in proportion of that number, reservation of seats in Lok Sabha, State Assemblies and in Government services should be made. I support this.

478 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

SHRI SYED MASUDAL HOSSAIN (Murshidabad): Mr. Chairman, Sir, supporting the new Bill presented before you, I would like to say few things. The list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes is prepared in our country in such a way as gives rise to doubts. The greatest lacuna with regard to this list is that it differs from State to State. Those who are Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes in one State are not recognised as such in other States. The problem is that there is no uniformity, when people of those castes go from one place to another in search of job and they settle there but they become non- Scheduled Castes there and they have to face a number of problems.

It is my request to the Government that when the official Bill is brought forward, care should be taken to make a common list so that when a person of Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe migrates from one State to another, his name is not deleted from the list of Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes. I think, it is very important.

One hon. Member spoke about the Banjaras of Rajasthan. Such Banjaras are found in several States. They are there in our State also, they are also found in some parts of U.P. and in several other places. They usually move from one place to another in connection with their business. They face lot of difficulties. They are recognised in some places while in some other places they are not recognised. It is very important to consider this point.

Secondly, the question of inclusion in the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes has come up. It would have been easier to speak if it was known as to which castes are there to be included.

There may be a case at the time of inclusion when those who do not come under Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes may also be included.

This should also be kept in mind. However the most important thing is that while preparing the lists of the people of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, our primary aim is to improve the financial condition, to

479 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

[Sh. Syed Masudal Hossain]

give them protection and to bring about a change in their social status. But after that the work stands still. In fact, what happens is that some seats are reserved for them for election purposes and all the primary works are left out. We remain unconcerned in regard to the measures to be taken to improve their financial condition and bring about a change in their social status.

What is the utility of preparing lists if we do not take these concrete measures. India is an agricultural country, and the biggest problem at present is the lack of radical land reforms. The financial condition of the people of poor sections cannot be improved until they are given land. Merely the extension of the list or going beyond the list or reserving certain Constituencies for S.C. and S.T. will not serve any purpose. The Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Welfare is present here. So I would like to request the hon. Minister, though the land reforms is not under his jurisdiction yet it is not out of the jurisdiction of the Cabinet, that he being a Welfare Minister, should emphasise on it. The people whose names have been entered in the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and those who have been living in most backward areas have not yet been given land even though more than 30 years passed since the land Reform Act was passed. Why they are not being given any land as yet? The Government has been giving the land lying waste, to the people on lease basis, But wherever the land on lease has been given, the lease is being snatched away. So there is a constant pressure on them; they are forced to surrender the land. The Government will have to provide protection to them. If those people do not acquire land, and remain deprived of educational facilities, their financial condition would not at all improve. List would be of no purpose if the people whose names have been entered in it have no shelter. I do not think it necessary to hold a long discussion over the matter. I think that all the hon.


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