<b>XII LOK SABHA DEBATES, <i> Session II, (Monsoon) </i> </b>
XII LOK SABHA DEBATES, Session II, (Monsoon) Thursday, July 16, 1998 /Asadha 25, 1920 (Saka)

Type of Debate: SPECIAL MENTION
Title: Requests the Central Government to instruct the State Government of Maharashtra to revert the permission of stage play on Nathu Ram Godse.

TEXT :
1203 hrs

MR. SPEAKER: The House will now take up `Zero Hour'.

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (BARAMULLA): Speaker, Sir, I wish to raise a very serious matter. I have given a notice also for that.

MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you after Shri Jogi.

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PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : Sir, I have given notice on it.

MR. SPEAKER: I will allow all of you one by one.

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PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : Sir, Mahatma Gandhi is not an ordinary person ..... (Interruptions) We respected him. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: The Minister is going to reply. Please sit down.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jogi, please understand. The Minister wants to reply.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Govindan, the Minister is going reply.

... (Interruptions)

DR. SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY (MADURAI): Sir, this Government cannot unfurl the national flag on the 15th of August. How can you allow those who are praising the murderer of Mahatma Gandhi to be in Government?

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please understand. This is not good. The Minister will reply.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT JOGI : The Prime Minister should come to the House and give reply. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: There are other Members also on the same subject. Shri Vora, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: There are other Members also who want to speak on the same subject. Shri Kawade, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : Sir, we respected Gandhiji not only as the Father of the Nation but we have also respected him as a saint and it is on record throughout the country that we did not have a person born in India of the stature of Gandhi after the Buddha. Now, his name is being vandalised in this play. Dialogues purportedly spoken by Gandhi are being rebutted by Godse in this play. His brother Gopal Godse was received in Maharashtra. Now, Sir, my point is ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It has already been raised by Shri Jogi. Please assist him. You need not go into the facts.

... (Interruptions)

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : I am giving a suggestion. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please understand. The Minister is also going to reply.

... (Interruptions)

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : How can the play be allowed in Gujarat and Maharashtra. Either you take a serious notice ... (Interruptions) I want this

House to take a serious notice. ... (Interruptions) I want the Government to clear the position. ... (Interruptions) The Government should explain the position to this House and to you, Sir. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Except the speech of Prof. Soz, nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions)*

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ :I want the Government to explain the position. ... (Interruptions) I want an observation on this today. You have to take a serious notice of this. How can the Government allow this play? ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I will also allow you. I have allowed Shri Jaipal Reddy. After him, I will call you.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: No, not now. Except the speech of Shri Jaipal Reddy nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) *

_____________________________________________________________________________ * Not Recorded

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : He has mentioned my name, I want to hear him. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: No, Prof. Soz, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: The Government is going to reply. No cross-talk please.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MAHABUBNAGAR): Sir, it is a matter of indescribable shame that Gandhi, who is not only the Father of the Nation but the greatest man of this millennium, is not only being vilified but his assassin is being glorified. That is the point. This play was specifically permitted by the Censor Board of the Government of Maharashtra and the BJP which is a leading party here, is a leading partner of that Government there. Whenever we refer to Shri Naturam Godse as one of the RSS activists, these people keep finding fault with the facts. Today, the same RSS persons are encouraging enactment of these plays. We want the Government to come up with a categorical statement. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Somnath Chatterjee, please.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to very strongly associate with what has already been said by Shri Jogi, ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are not expected to give a direction to the Chair. Please take your seat. I have called Shri Somnath Chatterjee.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I should have thought that in a matter like this, the hon. friends who are sitting now on the Treasury Benches ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. This is not good.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaubey, please take your seat. He is a very senior Member, please understand.

... (Interruptions)

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MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you. I have called Shri Somnath Chatterjee to Speak.

... (Interruptions)

+vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ¤ÉèÊ`öªÉä* +É{ÉEòÉä ¦ÉÒ ºÉÖxÉäÆMÉä*

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, I think, the time has come for us to very seriously consider whether we can, at all, function in this House. When a very serious matter like this is being raised, there are obviously, considerably strong feelings, feeling of anguish and feeling of horror also, that some hon. Members are expressing. The way they are being interrupted only shows that today we are facing a dispensation which has become a matter of serious danger to the country, the country's integrity, country's ethos.

Today, Sir, extolling the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi by conscious attempt in the name of some cultural activities is nothing but a direct insult not only to his memory but also for whatever good we stand for, this country stands for. Therefore, I should have expected some humility from their side, at least, the readiness to hear what others may have to say.

The other day Comrade Indrajit Gupta expressed his anguish which we all share that if we do not come here to discuss things, then we have no justification to be here. Therefore, I am requesting our hon. friends on the other side, enough damage has been done to the country because of their coming to power... (Interruptions)

SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN (CHANDIGARH): That is their real problem.

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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

MR. SPEAKER: No please, let him complete.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Although, I agree with my friends that Shri Sharad Pawar and his friends have very liberally contributed to their coming to that side. Therefore, I request that whatever little is left of the heritage and the greatness of this country may not be directly attacked in this manner. Today, if this play is continued to be staged in a city like Mumbai -- I have great respect for Mumbai -- what is the message that is going down the country? Therefore, I strongly request that, at least, some good sense may prevail. For a change, Shri Madan Lal Khurana may agree with that and categorically state here that there has been a great damage to the principles which we hold very dear in this country and let the murderer of Mahatma Gandhi not be extolled and not be projected as a martyr.

Therefore, it is a very serious matter and we wish the Government to respond to it very seriously.

SHRI SUDIP BANDYOPADHYAY (CALCUTTA NORTH-WEST): Does Shri Somnath Chatterjee accept Gandhiji as the `Father of the Nation'? I just want to hear that from him... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Yes, some people have to be told... (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (MUMBAI NORTH-WEST): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to speak. I have heard Shri Ajit Jogi, Prof. Saifuddin Soz, Shri Jaipal Reddy and Shri Somnath Chatterjee. I do not know one thing. Out of these four hon. Members, who has gone through that particular play, that particular drama? I have not read it. Whatever I have seen or read, that was from the newspapers only. One should not rely upon the information or news given in the newspaper. ...(Interruptions) Please just listen to me. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT JOGI: Sir, he is saying that I have not read the book. I have read the book. ...(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ajit Jogi, let him complete.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Let us know the contents of the book. Do not make allegations unnecessarily. After all, you are making allegations against the government. There is a machinery which approves any act or anything and only after ratifying, it comes to the stage. Now it is necessary to find out the facts as to what have been stated in that play and thereafter this House should criticise any State or any citizen of Mumbai or any Government of this country. One should not criticise without application of mind. It is absolutely wrong. ...(Interruptions)

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ :Sir, I have verified the facts. He is wrong. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR:Sir, I urge upon Shri Somnath Chatterjee and other hon. Members of this House ...(Interruptions) What you are saying is not a fact. ...(Interruptions) This is the thinking of the other person which has been displayed in the drama. There is no criticism. As far as Mahatma Gandhi is concerned, there is no criticism at all. While you shout, you should apply your mind and then shout. This is not the way, one should go on shouting ...(Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT JOGI : Do you approve it? ...(Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Every person has got the other side. Every coin has the other side. You try to understand that and then you can raise this issue here. That is my humble submission.

I will come back to this House after collecting the information. If what you have said is correct, I will also appreciate that but we should know the facts. That is very much important. Relying upon the news or information in the newspaper, one should not shout in this House. That is my contention. Thank you very much.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE (CALCUTTA SOUTH): Mr. Speaker, Sir ...(Interruptions) Please allow me to speak. ...(

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter raised by Shri Ajit Jogi is a very serious matter. Gandhiji is not only the Father of our Nation but all the people in the world respect him as a philosopher, friend and guide. So, Sir, what Shri Chatterjee has said is not factually correct.

I request the Government to collect the details from the Maharashtra Government. If any such attempt has been taking place, then the Government should take strong action so that the men like Gandhiji's name, philosophy, guidance and the facts are not distorted. ...(Interruptions) Any such attempt should be dealt with firmly so that the message should go to the country that we respect Gandhiji as the Father of our nation.

There were other national leaders like Ambedkar, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Bhagat Singh and Subhash Chandra Bose. Please see that there should not be any character assassination of these leaders. If it has been there, then you take strong action. I condemn if any such attempt has been made. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI PRITHVIRAJ D. CHAVAN (KARAD): You yourself have not seen the play. ...(Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : That is why, I have said it. ...(Interruptions)
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MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. Dr. Shakeel Ahmad, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Madam, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Mohan Singh, I will allow you.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ramdas Athawale, please take your seat.

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MR. SPEAKER: Shri Lal Muni Chaubey, please take your seat.

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MR. SPEAKER: Shri Lal Muni Chaubey, please conclude.

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b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù (¨ÉvÉÖ¤ÉxÉÒ) : ®úɹ]ÅÊ{ÉiÉÉ Eòä ½þiªÉÉ®úä EòÉä <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú ºÉä xɽþÒÆ ÊnùJÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB*

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<ºÉ {É®ú ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ*

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