<b>XIII LOK SABHA DEBATES, <i> Session I </i> </b>
XIII LOK SABHA DEBATES, Session I Wednesday, October 27, 1999/Kartika 5, 1921 (Saka)


Type of Debate: GOVERNMENT BILL
Title: Regarding discussion on the Constitution (Eighty-Fourth Amendment) Bill, 1999. (Amendment of article 334). Passed.

TEXT :
1302 hours

THE MINISTER OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS (SHRI RAM JETHMALANI): Sir, I beg to move:

"That the Bill further to amend the Constitution of India, be taken into consideration."

While moving this Eighty-fourth Constitution (Amendment) Bill, I must confess...

SHRI BUTA SINGH (JALORE): Is it Eighty-fourth amendment?

SHRI RAM JETHMALANI: It is Eighty-fourth Amendment Bill but when it becomes a law, it will become seventy-ninth constitutional amendment. Therefore, we have also to simultaneously move an amendment.

There are two things which I have been considering which might eliminate a long discussion today. In fact, the matter is very important. The hon. Member said that the original expectation of those who made our Constitution was that we would be able to create a level-playing field for all sections of the society within the first fifteen years. But we had to come before the House every ten years or 15 years to make a confession of failure. I had been thinking that I should informally call all Members who represent the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in both the Houses, not for a four hour discussion, but for a three-day convention when every single issue including those issues which require legislation and which do not require legislation would be discussed threadbare and we must draw out a plan.

I propose, with a little encouragement from hon. Members present, that this Convention should be held sometime before the commencement of the Winter Session.

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* Published in the Gazettee of India, Extraordinary Part-II Section -2, dated 27.10.99

Second, a Report is expected from the Commissions which deal with the working of our system of reservations and the measures for the improvement of the destiny of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. When that Report is presented to the House, we can use that occasion for a further discussion on the floor of the House which discussion will be a more informed discussion because for two or three days outside the House we would have discussed these problems. However, Sir, these are matters which I leave to the hon. Members. Formally or informally, everybody can get in touch with me. You can arrest me if you like. I am willing to sit down with all of you and discuss what should be done.

So far as the present measure is concerned, I must confess that I am moving this motion with mixed feelings of pain as well as to some extent pleasure. My pain arises out of the fact that there has been a total failure. Maybe the words "total failure" are a slight exaggeration. But there has been a substantial failure in fulfilling the expectations of Dr. Ambedkar and that brilliant galaxy of Constitution makers that sat with him.

The Constitution makers did envisage the indignities and the cruelties that had been perpetrated upon one section of society by another section. The Constitution did decide very consciously that special steps would have to be taken to create a level playing field, that we would have to neutralise the damage and the disability that has been caused by centuries of persecution. But the pain arises out of the fact that the Constitution makers expected a speedy change in the life standards and the method in which society deals with these somewhat downtrodden sections of society within fifteen years. But the pleasure arises out of the fact that at least our commitment to the goals which Dr. Ambedkar and that galaxy set before us has not been been diluted and every section of this House is agreed that special measures have to be kept in tact and not only kept in tact but must be strengthened much more than they have hitherto been strengthened because we must now make a solemn resolve that we will achieve within the next ten years what we have failed to achieve during the last fifty years. This may sound a little utopian. This may sound a little too optimistic. But unless we put our shoulders to the wheel altogether, we utilise all our material, moral and spiritual resources in this great cause, I think my future successor Law Minister will have again to appear before this House and say that we have failed to achieve the objects and we should extend it for another ten or fifteen years. I wish to avoid this happening to any successor Law Minister of the future.

The Bill is essentially non-controversial. The fact remains that the necessity which created article 334 in the Constitution has not ceased to exist. We are all agreed upon it. Therefore, this period of fifty years, which is expiring within a period of few days, has got to be extended. Therefore, there is really no controversy. Whatever you are going to speak today will lend nothing by way of opposition to the basic proposition which I am asking the House to accept. It will have to deal with other subsidiary matters which include the main questions: Are the reservations the only solution of the problems with which we are grappling? What are the other steps and measures which we have to adopt? How has the mindset of the society in general to be changed so that there must be an internal feeling of brotherhood, equality and dignity for all? All these are grave problems. But all those problems and your comments upon those problems will have nothing to do with the basic proposition in this Bill that let the reservations continue for ten years. Unless they continue for ten years, you will not have any opportunity even to think about the problems which you have in mind.

So far as I am concerned, I am here for this Bill. If the House wants to discuss it for four hours or five hours or till midnight, I am prepared to sit till midnight so long as we pass this Bill today itself so that I can take it to the Rajya Sabha tomorrow. So, it is for the House to decide now whether to have the voting at 4.00 p.m. or 5.00 p.m.

I suggest that let us unanimously pass this measure without any further discussion. But if the House wants to discuss it for three hours and some Members want to record their views, I will patiently sit here and listen to them with great respect. I know what Shri Rajesh Pilot is going to say. I can assure him in advance that what I anticipate he is going to say will be very respectfully and deeply considered by the Government. It will not only be considered by the Government, but myself and my colleagues in the Government, in conjunction with all the Members of the House who have the cause of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes dear to their heart, will all meet, as I said, for a three day convention and we will hammer out the solutions. Whatever those solutions are, we will present them as unanimous resolutions to both the Houses of Parliament in the Winter Session of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir, and I have nothing further to say now.

SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA): Mr. Chairman, Sir, when we had discussed this Bill last time, we had pointed out that these constituencies must be rotated. When we had gone round the country, the people of these constituencies complained that a particular constituency has been reserved for the last 50 years. We have to see whether the population of the Scheduled Castes or the Scheduled Tribes remains at the same level even now or the adjoining constituencies have more number of the Scheduled Castes or the Scheduled Tribes in the same district. So, rotation of these constituencies can take place. I think this point should be kept in mind by the Government.

SHRI RAM JETHMALANI: Sir, I have that in mind. The hon. Member can take it that we are conscious of that problem. That problem is, basically, a problem of delimitation which we will, certainly, consider very seriously, in great detail.

SHRI RAJESH PILOT: Thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Since the Government has decided to convene a three day convention, I would suggest that instead of 5.00 p.m., we can have the voting at 4.00 p.m., so that the House can take up the discussion on natural calamities after this Bill is passed.

SHRI PRAVINCHANDRA SOMABHAI RASHTRAPAL (PATAN): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the discussion in Parliament is more important than the convention outside Parliament.

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is only my suggestion. If the House agrees to this suggestion by consensus, we will have the voting at 4.00 p.m. Otherwise, we will have it at 5.00 p.m.

] ʺƽ (Vɱ): ɦ{i V, ɽ V ʴvx E 84 ƶvx ʴvE +ɪ , ɽ BE +{SʮEi , BE ]x ɨɱ * vɮhi: ɽ {U E ɦ + Vi, Mɮ SE {U E ɦ ɴ< xɽ E {< <ʱB < E ɦ +ɪ * ɽ ʴvE +{x +{ < i E Ei + < i E |E] Ei E < n 30 Ec +xֺSi Vi B +xֺSi VxVi E M E l V ɪn ʴvx E vɨ EB MB l +V 50 ɱ E n {ڮ xɽ B ʱE + =xE V {ʮʺli , +V ɨV V =xE VxiE, +lE + ɨVE ɱi , = nJE nJ i EE 50 ɱ =xE ɱi E< {ʮix xɽ + * +V ɨV =xE =ix xɮn , +V =xE =ix h Vix {ɽ i l*

ɦ{i ɽn, < ʴvx ƶvx ʴvE , V xxҪ j V x E, Eɱ BE <x E ƶvx + vɮh i {ɮ, < {gx Mi E <ɨ EU Ex E ʱB xɽ , Ex <ɨ <ix EU Ex E VɺE E< Ҩ xɽ * Vɤ < iɤn E +xi < ƶvx E {ɺ Ex E ʱB BEji B , i ɽ ɦʴE E V EU {U +vǶiɤn + , = {ɮ vx n* <E EO=b Eƺ]]B] B訤ɱ ְ xɽ i * + xxҪ V`ɱx V x E E ɮ Eƺ]]B] B訤ɱ ƶvx E |ɴvx E Mɪ l*

{ɮxi =xE {i x SʽB E ɮi E +n ƶvx E |l x 1926-1927 ֯ < VɤE ɦ Viɪ E ʱB ƶvx l Vɺɨ pɺ |Wbƺ + ɨ< |Wbƺ ʮVx E ʱB 22 |iɶi, ʺɨ E ʱB 0.6 |iɶi, FʶSɪx E ʱB 0.7 |iɶi, ʽxnW E ʱB 12 |iɶi, ʽxn xx-ɽh E ʱB 38 |iɶi + ʽxn ɽh E ʱB 13 |iɶi* ɽ +V E i xɽ , ɽ +ɮIh E xi +OV E Ei Sɱ < + +Jɮ < xi E {ɮ {V b. ɤ ɽ +bE x nʱi + {Uc B M E Ei nɴx E ʱB B ɨV , Vɺ ɨV x Vi |l E +n =xE {Һ-{ҺE =xE VҴx E +xɴҪ VҴx xɪ + l, =E ɨ{i Ex E ʱB {ڮ VҴx ʥ] ɮEɮ E +Mx] Pɹ E* n E +n V ɨ|nʪE Eiɪ l, =xE Jɱɡ Pɹ E* ɨ ʴɱɺ V Vxi , 1932 ɹ]{i ɽi Mv V E ɨx Vɤ ɽ {ʮʺli {n < E n E +n V +Vn {ɽ ɨ|nɪ E xɨ ʴɦVx l, Vɺɨ b. ɤ ɽ +bE E |ɦɴ n E nʱi, n-{ɺ M <E_ E BE Ei E { =ɮ i =x B M E ɪn n E BEi + +Jbi xɽ S {BM* ɹ]{i ɽi Mv x {h ɽi c |ɪɺ EE n E BEi + +Jbi E Sx E ʱB +{x +ɨɮh +xɶx J n* = E n E ɦ {]Ǫ E xi+ x ɤ ɽ +bE +{ұ E + ɤ ɽ x n E BEi + +Jbi E ɨx Ji B BE VxiE ɨZi ɽi Mv V E l E* V`ɱx V, <E ֯+i ɽ i * ʡ <E ɮ n E ʴvx n Mɪ iE < Exx E { n n VB* {ɮxi <E ֯+i x 1932 < + 1932 {h {E] E xɨ V EMV niJi EB MB, =ɨ <E n {ɽ - {h {E] E EV 6 ʱJ + -

"It provides that every endeavour shall be made to secure a fair representation of depressed classes in elections to local bodies and appointments to public services."

V ʤɱ +V +{x < nx E ɨx |ɺii E ,

representation in the democratic bodies like Assemblies and Parliament,

=ɨ + ɽi EU +vڮ * V`ɱV V, +{x Exƺ ֱx E +ɽx E * = Exƺ E Jɱɡ xɽ Mɮ +{E nB l E {ɺ ` B ɨ ʴɱɺ {ɺɴx V x <E ɨvx +V n-ix ɱ {ɽ {ʱǪɨ] E +n, Eʤx] E +n BE +bxƺ E { { E l* ɮ +{ɺ ɽ |lx E = +bxƺ E +{ ]ű BE] E { i֮xi +<B* +{E Exƺ Ex E Vɰi xɽ * =ɨ ɤ EU nJ ʱɪ Mɪ * = +bxƺ +V iE +ɮIh xi E iɽi ɮEɮ E iɮ , xɪ |hɱ E iɮ , xEɽ E iɮ V +vEh E n Mɪ, =E ic n Mɪ, = Ji E n Mɪ, ɽ {S ɮi ɮEɮ E +ʡʶɪɱ b, VxE Vɽ BE-BE EE +ɮIh E ɦ {ɽ+ E Ji E Mɪ* =E n ɽ ɨZi l, {U E ɦ 17 + 18 S E < nx E +n ɦ {I E + E ɦ E 86 n x BE Y{x +nhҪ |vxɨj +] ʤɽɮ V{ V E n l Vɺɨ ɮiҪ Vxi {], .{.B., .{.+<. EO, ɨVɴn {], ɹ]Ҫ Vxi n, Vxi n +n E M l* ɦ x niJi EE xxɨɺɱ BE b n l + =n Ei l E |vxɨj = b, V {֮x MVɮɱ ɽ E Ei E +bxƺ l, VɺE >{ɮ ɮi ɮEɮ E EI + iE vڱ {c < , E < nx BM, + V {S +ʡʶɪɱ hb ɮi ɮEɮ E + Vɮ EE ɮ +ɮIhxi E Vc E] n M< , =x ɤ E {ɺ EM* Mɮ + E B xɽ + + =E n Vɤ {ڮ n E ɦ E <Eƺ =Z + l i ɮi E |Ҩ E] x n ɱ + E n, V ɽi PiE {ɮxi +V < i {ɮ SS xɽ EM* ʴv j V Er |lx EM E Vix < E]Ǻ |Ҩ E] E ɱ +ɮIh xi E iɽi +nɺ +lɴ nʱi M E Jɱɡ +ɪ , =xE >{ɮ ɨʽE i {ɮ SS < nx Vɪ, EE ɽ =E xɪn , ɽ =E ] , =E Vc * n֦Mɴɶ ɮ ɽ ʴɦM, ɮ ɽ ʴɹɪ ix jɱɪ ] + * BE jɱɪ xxҪ ɹ]{i V x BEx + ʤVx E xɨ n , BE jɱɪ |vx j V E nJ-J

... (ɴvx)

+Jɱ ʺƽ (ɽɮVMV) : ɦ{i ɽn, < ɽi{h ʴvE {ɮ ɮEɮ E xҪi ɡ xɽ Vx {ci* nx n E +ɴ , E E +ɴ *

MR. CHAIRMAN : The concerned Minister, other Cabinet and State Ministers are here.

] ʺƽ : ɦ{i ɽn, +V E l E V ɱ +ɪ , =xE =x ɱ E {ڮ E {ڮ +ɮ Eɱ nʱi M + +nɺ, Eb EɺW E ʽi E Jɱɡ + * ɽi < E]Ǻ E B ɱ , ֨< < E] E , E < E] E , pɺ < E] E + |Ҩ E] E , Vx ɱ E vɨ +ɮIh xi E ɱ ʨɱi * {ɮxi Jn Ex {ci E Vx ɱ E vɨ nʱi + +nɺ M E M E ɪn , =x ɱ E U+ iE xɽ Mɪ, nExɮ E n Mɪ + ɤE] n E< ɺɱ E < E] =`i i =x ɱ E q E n Mɪ*

BE =nɽh n, ɱ V ɤɺ +Jɮ ɱ |Ҩ E] + , E VV E xɪɱɪ E >{ɮ E< +I{ xɽ EM, Mɮ V |F ESɽʮ E +xn Sɱ , Vɺɺ nʱi E + +nʺɪ E {ix , =E =J Vɰ EM* ɤɺ +Jɮ ɱ V |Ҩ E] E {S 訤ɮ S x E , VɺE +vIi ɮ n E =SSiɨ xɪɱɪ E xxҪ Sҡ Vʺ] x E, <ɺ {ɽ = ɺɱ E >{ɮ BE ɱ + l, Vɺɨ i 訤ɮ S ` l + =ɨ E Mɪ l E nʱi + +nʺɪ E +ɮIh E V ɨɱ ʴvx , ɽ =xE bɨ] <] , EE ɮ ʴvx E {] m +xE vɮB , +]E +lɴ bɨ] <] * {ɮxi Z = ɱ E {gE nJ + E |Ҩ E] E iǨx S x = bɨ] <] E nE BxʱM |Vx E nV n n* xiV ɽ + E Eƺ]]ڶx E {] m E ɮ E ɮ bɨ] <], =E ɮ E ɮ +]E, Mɮ =E BE +]E E U] +xSUn, Vɺɺ nʱi M E + +nʺɪ E ɪn , =E |Ҩ E] E xxҪ Sҡ Vʺ] E S x ɽ E n E ɽ bɨ] <] xɽ *

ɮ xxҪ j V n E ɽi c Vʮ] + ɽi bM ɮ * =xE vɨ < nx BE +{ұ Ex Sɽi E Eƺ]]ڶx ʱJx + Eƺ]]ڶx ƶvx Ex Eɱ < nx E Eɨ * < nx E +ɴ ɮ bF]E ]-+{ E E ɽ +vEɮ xɽ * ɽ +vEɮ |Ҩ E] E Ex n, <ix +{ɺ {Ux Sɽi *


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