MR. CHAIRMAN : Dr. Jagannath, please sit down.

... (Interruptions)

DR. MANDA JAGANNATH : He has insulted the communities. He should apologise. ... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Swain, please conclude now.

... (Interruptions)

DR. MANDA JAGANNATH : It is very bad on his part.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, my own private doctor belongs to a Scheduled Caste. ... (Interruptions)

DR. MANDA JAGANNATH : How can you say that? ... (Interruptions) He has got every right to have a doctor of his choice. Why should he go to that doctor? ... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, I have not insulted anybody.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please come to the point.

... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Dr. Jagannath, please take your seat.

DR. MANDA JAGANNATH : He must withdraw his words. He has insulted the community. He has insulted the Scheduled Castes. He should withdraw those words.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : My own family doctor belongs to a Scheduled Caste. ... (Interruptions)

DR. MANDA JAGANNATH : How can you say that? You have got every right to go to any doctor. Who asked you to go to a Scheduled Caste doctor? ... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : They are trying to say that there is nothing like merit. I do not agree with that. Merit has got its own value.

DR. MANDA JAGANNATH : In India, there are universities where Professors interview the candidates. ... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I am not yielding, but he is not allowing me to speak.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Dr. Jagannath, you will also get a chance.

... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Swain, please wind up now.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, I seek your protection. What sort of behaviour is this? ... (Interruptions) He can speak later. I am not insulting anybody. Why should I insult anybody? I have 25 % Scheduled Caste people in my constituency. ... (Interruptions)

DR. MANDA JAGANNATH : He has said that Scheduled Caste doctors are bad doctors. He must withdraw those words. He must apologise. ... (Interruptions)

SHRI KODIKUNNIL SURESH : In your speech, you insulted the Scheduled Caste communities.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, I will also say that the agony of the person who belongs to the general category, when, after two or three years, he finds that his subordinates - because he belongs to some other category - surpass him should also be understood. It is not that agony belongs only to a class of people. It is not like that. Agony belongs to everybody. ... (Interruptions)

Merit has its own value. So, the `creamy layer' aspect should also be taken into consideration and the benefit that is going to the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes should percolate down to the poorest of the poor of the same community. A time-frame should be fixed so that we can see an end to this system of reservation as we have seen an end to reservation in the case of the hon. President Shri K.R. Narayanan and the hon. Speaker Shri Balayogi.

--------

E֨ɮ ɪɴi (+Eɮ{֮): xxҪ ɦ{i V, +V Exx j ɽn x ɮiҪ ʴvx + ƶvx Ex E ʱB SɺҴ ʴvx ƶvx ʴvE |ɺii E , =E ɨlx Jc < * Z {ڴ < ʴvE E ɮ ɽi i E Mɪ * +ɮIh E ɮ E Vi E +ɮIh E E< ɨɪ Ҩ x SʽB + ɨɪ Ҩ xvʮi EE +ɮIh E Vɱn ɨ{i Ex SʽB* < E E S Jx ɱ V ɮ ƺn , =x ɽ ɨZx M E < n +ɮIh E Vɰi E {c* +ɮIh E Vɰi <ʱB {c EE < n ɨVE M-ɮɤɮ ɨ ɨɪ x < + +V VnM E {ɽ Jʨɪ xVɮ +i * = M-ɮɤɮ E nڮ Ex E ʱB ɨɪ-ɨɪ {ɮ ɮ ɽx {ְ x Eɡ Pɹ E * ɽi Vi ɴ ڱ, Uj{i ɽV ɽɮV, {ɮ {V ɤ ɽ b.+bE V, {ʮɮ V + +x ɽ{ְ il Mְ B Vxx ɨɪ-ɨɪ {ɮ < n ɨVE M-ɮɤɮ E nڮ Ex E ʱB Pɹ E , =xE Pɹ E Eɮh lc ɽi +xֺSi Vi + VxVi E M E +ɮIh E { EU ʨɱ ,

ɺiɴ ɽ =xE nx * {ɮ {VxҪ b. ɤ ɽ +bE x ɮiҪ ʴvx xi ɨɪ < i E MƦҮi ʱɪ + ʴvx xx ɱ E] E ɨx ɽ M-ɮɤɮ ɱ i J* +{E vɨ < nx E ix SɽM E Vɤ iE < n ɨVE, +lE + IhE M-ɮɤɮ M, iɤ iE < n x ɱ +xֺSi Vi + +xֺSi VxVi E M, < ɨV E n-ESɱ M E <E Vɰi ɽں i M* < n ɽ +ɮIh E Vɰi <ʱɪ {c EE ɽ {ɮ M-ɮɤɮ ɨVE ɴɺl * ɮiҪ ʴvx <x M E VxnM E {ɽ +M gɴ nx E ʱɪ +ɮIh E ɴɺl E M< * < i E MƦҮi Sx M E Vɤ ʴvx <xE +ɮIh E ʱɪ ɴɺl E M< , iɤ E +xֺSi Vi + +xֺSi VxVi E M E VxnM E {ɽ +ɮIh ʨɱ , ɨZi E ɽ xɽ ʨɱ * Vɤ n ɱ E n +ɮIh E +v gx E i +i i Z ɱڨ E {] E xi +{x VxiE l E Eɮh < ʴvE E ɨlx Ei * Vɤ n ɱ {ڮ Vi + ƶvx ʴvE +i i {] E xi +xֺSi Vi + +xֺSi VxVi E M E ] x E ʱɪ +{x n {ɮ {ilɮ JE Vɰ <E ɨlx Ei * M n xɽ Sɽi E ɽ +ɮIh Vɮ + <E E]x] x * <ʱɪ x ɽ i E E EE n {] E M Sɽ E +ɮIh E ɦ +xֺSi Vi + +xֺSi VxVi E M E {ڮ ʨɱ i ɨZi E n =xE xҪi ɡ i =xE +ɮIh E ɦ {ڮ ʨɱ Ei *

ɦ{i ɽn, +Vn E n Exp + V EO E ɮEɮ x* EU ɨɪ iE M-EO ɮEɮ + EU ɨɪ i ʨɱ-Vֱ ɮEɮ , Sɽ ɽ Exp V , E {] x +xֺSi Vi + +xֺSi VxVi E +ɮIh E] E {ڮ xɽ E * ɽ Eɮh E Vɤ ɮiҪ ʴvx E xɨh l i =xE ƶ ɽ xɽ l E +ɮIh E]x * Sɽi l E Vx +xںSi Vi + +xֺSi VxVi E M E VxnM E {ɽ Mɮɪ Mɪ , {Uc Mɪ il ɨVE M-ɮɤɮ E Sɱi B M E +ɮIh n Vɪ* Vɺ {] E ɮEɮ xi , ɽ ɡ xҪi ɽ E] {ڮ E iE Vɱn Vɱn M +{x lx {ɮ Jc E* ɽ ƶ ɮiҪ ʴvx xɨi+ E l* ֯ V +v J l, ʴvx xx E n n +{ = +v E +n Eɨ Ei i ɮEɮ Sɱx ɱ E xҪi ɡ i, + {ɽ n ɱ E +n ʴɶ +ʦɪx SɱE +ɮIh E E] E {ڮ E n Vi il V +vEɮMh Vɺ ɽE E M +ɮIh E E] {ڮ xɽ Ei, n =xE Jɱɡ Ji EɮǴ< Ex E ʱB {ڴ E ɮEɮ EU Exx xi i ɨZi E {ɽ n ɱ +ɮIh E E] {ڮ Vi* Z nJ E l Ex {ci E Vɤ bڱb Eɺ] + bڱb ]< E ʱB +ɮIh E i Ei i ɽi M E iEҡ i , +{ɮ Eɺ] E M E iEҡ i E <x ɽ ɦ E ʨɱ * Ex +xֺSi VxVi E M xɽ Sɽi E ɽ Ji ʨɱ, ɶi E +{ M +{x xʺEi iɤnұ E * n +xֺSi Vi + VxVi E M E +{ɮ Eɺ] E ɮɤɮ {ɮ E Jc E n, ɨVE ɮɤɮ {ɮ E Jc E n, +lE +ɨxi E nڮ E n, ɨVE M-ɮɤɮ E nڮ E n i ɽ Ji xɽ SʽB* ix Sɽi E Vɤ iE < n E +n ɨVE M-ɮɤɮ M, +lE M-ɮɤɮ M, IhE M-ɮɤɮ M, iɤ iE < n E +n +xֺSi Viɪ + VxViɪ E Ec M E +ɮIh E Vɰi ɽں i M*

ɦ{i ɽn, +ɮIh E ɮ BE i + Ex SɽM* x {U ɮEɮ E nx E l E +ɮIh E ɨɱ E V E ɮEɮ + E Exp E ɮEɮ nJɱnV EE +ɮIh E xɹ|ɦɴ xx E Eʶɶ M i * x {U ɮEɮ E nx E l E +ɮIh E {ڮ ɦ +xֺSi Viɪ + VxViɪ E ʨɱi , <ɨ E< UcUc x E VB il <E ʱɪ +ɮIh E ɮiҪ ʴvx E 9 +xֺS J VB* < ɮ xxҪ Exx j V E xxҪ ɦ{i V E vɨ Ex SɽM E +{ Exx E ɽi c ʴɶY + +{x ְ < |ɺiɴ, < ʴvE E |ɺii Ei B ɽ E l E bڱb Eɺ] + bڱb ]< E ɡɮ E ʱB BE ɨx EM Vɺɨ bڱb Eɺ] + bڱb ]< E 訤ɮ {ʱǪɨ] il rVҴ iɤE E M E ɪ E <xE ɡɮ E ʱB En =`x SɽM, ɨZi E ɽ +{E BE +SU Zɴ , <E ɨlx Ei + +{x V ʴvx ƶvx ʴvE J , <E ɨlx Ex E ʱB Jc < , Ex <E l l ɽ |lx Ei E E |n , E {] E ɮEɮ Exp ɮEɮ +ɮIh E ɨɱ +ɮIh E xɹ|ɦɴ xx E ʱB E< nJɱnV x E E, <E ʱB +{ ɮiҪ ʴvx E 9 +xֺS < Jx E ʱB ʴvE ɪ* x 22 iɮJ E Vɤ < ɦ {E {n E ʱB Sɪx l, = E {ɮ ɽ E l E +ɮIh E ɨɱ E |Ҩ E] nJɱnV Ei + E xSɱ +nɱi nJɱnV Ei VɺE Eɮh +ɮIh E {ڮ ɦ +xֺSi Vi + VxViɪ E M E xɽ ʨɱ * x = nx {E ɽn |lx E l E +{ xxҪ |vx j V iSi E + Exx j V ɽ |lx E +{ xxҪ |vx j V < i E >{ɮ c MƦҮi ʴSɮ E E ɨɪ-ɨɪ {ɮ |Ҩ E] + xSɱ +nɱi +ɮIh E ɨɱ nJɱnV Ei + +ɮIh E xɹ|ɦɴ xɪ Vi i =ɺ bڱb Eɺ] + bڱb ]< E M E ɽi iEҡ i + =x ʡ cE {ɮ =iɮx {ci , =xE BV]x Ex {ci * <ʱB Sɽi E < ɨɱ {ɮ xxҪ |vx j V i EE ɽ BE B ʴvE ɪ Vɺɺ |Ҩ E] + xSɱ +nɱi <ɨ nJɱnV x E E, B ɨZi E <E ɮ +{ MƦҮi Vɰ SM* Vn ɨɪ x i B +{ɺ {x: ɽ Ex E ɽE +ɮIh E E] {ڮ Ex E ʱB +{E BE ʴɶ +ʦɪx Sɱx SʽB*

ɦ{i ɽn, +{E vɨ j V Ex Sɽi E +xֺSi Vi, +xֺSi VxVi E M E >{ɮ =`x E ʱB BE ʴɶ +ʦɪx E iɽi, ]= >b |Oɨ xE ɽ xʶSi Ex {cM E <ix ɨɪ =xE +ɮIh E E] {ڮ E n VBM + V +vEɮ +ɮIh E E] {ڮ xɽ EM =xE Jɱɡ Ji EɮǴ< E VBM* Vɤ iE +{ B xɽ EM + Ji EɮǴ< Ex E ʱB E< ]{ xɽ =`BM, iɤ iE =xE E] {ڮ xɽ M*

ɦ{i ɽn, Z B Mi E 10 ɱ E n, ɱ +{ j x +{E lx {ɮ nںɮ j V +B, =xE ʴvx ƶvx ʴvE x {ɮ ʴɴɶ x {cM* <ʱB Ex E +ɮIh E +v E gx E ʱB ʡ ʴvE x x {c =E ʱB ɽ Vɰ E +xֺSi Vi + +xֺSi VxVi E M E +ɮIh E] {ڮ Ex E ʱB +{ ɡ xҪi BE ʴɶ +ɮIh +ʦɪx SɱB* ʴɶ { V ɦ + |n E ʴvx {ʮn E ɮ Ex Sɽi E ɽ ɽ E] M E VB* iǨx , E ɦ il |n E ʴvx ɦ+ ɽ M , Ex V ɦ B ʴvx {ʮn M xɽ * <ʱB ɽ < i֮xi M E VB* < ɮ j V +{ S-ʴSɮ E E Vɤ E ɦ + ʴvx ɦ+ =xE ʱB +ɮIh , i V ɦ + ʴvx {ʮn E xɽ * +Oɽ E ɽ < ɴɺl E M E VB + <E ʱB +{E +M BE ʴvE x E Eʶɶ EM, B Z =n *

ɦ{i ɽn, <x ɡV E l, Vn ɨɪ x i B, Zɺ {ڴ Ei+ + ʴʦxx {]Ǫ E xi+ x V ʴSɮ ɽ Ei EB + V Jɱi J , =xE Jɱi +{x ɽi Vii B, V i x ɽ J , Z =n E +{ =xE iɮ ʴɶ vx nM* ɦ{i ɽn, +{E vɨ =x n i E ʴɶ { n nx Sɽi + {x: Exx j V xɴnx Ex Sɽi E n +{E xҪi ɡ + ɮEɮ SS n +xֺSi Vi + VxVi E M E >{ɮ =`x Sɽi + =xE +ɮIh E {ڮ ɦ nx Sɽi , i +ɮIh x Exp ɮEɮ, x E< V ɮEɮ + x |Ҩ E] il xSɱ +nɱi E iɮ E nJɱnV E* < i +ɮIh E ɨɱ E ɮi E ʴvx E x +xֺS B*

<E l-l +{ BE + B ʴvE B Vɺɨ ɽ ƶx E VB E ʴvx V ɴɺl E M< =E +xֺɮ ɽE +xֺSi Vi B VxVi E M E +ɮIh E xɹ|ɦɴ xx E ʱB x i E< |Ҩ E] nJɱnV nM + x E< xSɱ +nɱi =ɨ +cM MBM*

ɦ{i ɽn, SE +{x P] V n + ɽ <bE] E n E x E ɨɪ ɨ{i Mɪ , <ʱB <x ɡV E l +{x i ɨ{i Ex SɽM* EE +Mɮ xִn ɴɺl {ɮ EU M, i ii {I E M SJM, Ex i nx Sɽi E xִn ɴɺl E Eɮh +V +xֺSi Vi B +xֺSi VxVi E M E B ɱi < VɺE Eɮh =xE ʱB +ɮIh E ɴɺl Ex {c* Z ʴɶɺ E +ɮIh E {ڮ Ex E ʱB +{ {ɱ ]{ =`BM* <x ɡV E l +{ɺ ʴn x SɽM*

ɨ Mɮ (ɮɤE) : +vɹ`i ɽn, Exx j E {n +V V 84 ɮiҪ ʴvx ƶvx ʴvE + ʴvx E +xSUn 334 ƶvx E V ʴvE +ɪ ɨVɴn {] E + =E ɨlx Ex E ʱB Jc + *

ʴvx V ɨVE, +lE + VxiE +ɮIh E ɴɺl E M< l, VɺE ʱB BE ɨɪ Ҩ v M< l E V M {U , =x ʴɶ +ɺɮ nE ɨVE, VxiE iɮ {ɮ ɮɤɮ E nV nM, < i E Jn + nx E < i E Sxi E ɺiɴ n E +n V ɴɺl x< M< l, n ʴvx xExҪi Eɪ E Mɪ i + =xE ʴv E n x E Mɪ i i V n-n ɹ ʴvx ƶvx + +ɮIh E ɨɪ +v g< Vi , ɪn =E +ɴɶEi x {ci* Vɺ i E ʱB =x ʴɶ +ɺɮ n Mɪ l, Sɽ +xֺSi Vi VxVi E < , +V =xE {ɺ x Ex , x {x E {x + ʶI E ɨɱ =xE iɮ ɽi {U * n EM i ɪn ii {I E M EM E ʴɹɪiɮ E V * ɮ ɽ +xֺSi Vi E M E <n +ɴɺ E V ʴv n M< l, 20,000 {ɪ Pɮ xx E i E M<, ɽ E ɮiҪ Vxi {] E ɮEɮ, Vɺɨ +{E ɽ Vn j , Ex {ɮ {S n Vɮ {ɪ iE E EҶx * <ix c E{x * ɽ xɽ, =xE E V ʴiiҪ ɽɪi n V , Exx j V, =ɨ n |iɶi iҺ |iɶi iE EҶx Jֱ +ɨ i * Vɤ =xE ʴv < |Eɮ E n M, ɮEɮ E xҪi `E xɽ M, +vEʮ E xҪi `E xɽ M i `E ʴv E {ɽS< V Ei * < i E Sx {cM*

Vɽ iE ɮEɮ xEʮ E ɴɱ , iɨɨ VMɽ ɽ ʱJ n Vi E ]ɱ Exbb] xɽ ʨɱ <ʱB =xE VMɽ {ɮ Vxɮ E n VB* V ƺlMi Eڱ , Bbb , =xɨ S{ɮɺ E VMɽ E {i xɽ { , c xEʮ i Vx nVB* +{ɺ +x֮v Ex Sɽi E B { V M M B + =xE iɮEE E ʱB V ʴv n M< , + ɮ ʮ` l l,


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