SHRI TARUN GAGOI (KALIABOR): No, this is not correct... (Interruptions)

SHRI AMAR ROY PRADHAN : Yes. Now they are siding with the BJP and they will come forward again... (Interruptions) They had so many Army Operations there, like Operation Bajrang in 1990, Operation Rhino in 1991 and so on. But I would like to know what is the result. What is the attitude of ULFA? It believes that Assam was never a part of India before it was annexed by the British. This is their attitude... (Interruptions) Sir, you can imagine this easily what is going on there in Assam.

This is the position in the North-Eastern Region of our country. I know the main reason is that once you declare the tribals of that area as Scheduled Tribes then it will ultimately be a Tribal State and just to refuse that whether it is Congress, BJP or Janata Dal, whoever is in power, it will try to undo it. For that fact they did not do.

I would like to appeal to the Government that if you want to stop insurgency and disturbances and you like the ISI activities to be stopped in that part of our country, then you must come forward with a comprehensive Bill that these tribals may be treated as Scheduled Tribes under the Constitution of India.

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN (SANGRUR): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I am grateful that you have allotted some time to a Sikh representative of the Shiromani Akali Dal. I hope you will be a little liberal with me because there is no Sikh Minister in the Union Cabinet and I will try and represent my nationality as best as I can.

I wish to transport your thoughts to 1984 when the Indian Government with the full force of the Armed Forces razed the Golden Temple to the ground and killed thousands of pilgrims, who were innocent people. The Government of India had said that they were cleaning the Golden Temple of terrorists. This is the lame excuse and I do not agree with it nor do the Sikhs agree with it.

I take the case of the Babri Masjid. Were there terrorists in the Babri Masjid when it was razed to the ground? Chrisitan nuns are being raped. Are they terrorists that they should be raped like Sikh women during the Operation `Blue Star'? The Pope is not being allowed to come to India and obstacles are being placed in his way. Is the Pope a terrorist? Churches in Pondicherry had been burnt and razed to the ground. Did they haul up any terrorist?

The President's Address is very careful and it says that terrorism has got to be finished. Terrorism can be finished when there is an action and a reaction. That causes all sorts of terrorist problems. I blame the Indian State for terrorising the minorities and putting us to death. I myself have served seven years in prison. I myself have been tortured. And the height of it all was that though article 21 of the Constitution gives us the right to life and liberty, it was taken away by Rajiv Gandhi's Government by introducing the 59th Constitution Amendment Bill, which declared that we could be finished off without the due process of law. Now, these are the sort of laws that have been promulgated in this country.

There are hundreds of Sikhs who are in prison since 1984. TADA has been repealed on the surface of it but I am attending the TADA courts. I am a TADA prisoner myself. How long is this kind of justice to continue? How long are we to wait to get to our cherished dreams which Jawaharlal Nehru promised that we would get a territory in India where we could feel the glow of freedom? We do not feel the freedom. Our passports have been confiscated. We are not allowed to travel abroad, not even myself though I have become a Member of Parliament. It is a privilege of a Member of Parliament to get a diplomatic passport. But this is all being denied to us.

What about the river waters of Punjab? The Constitution is very clear that the subject of river waters is in the State List but all the river waters of Punjab have been taken over by New Delhi. New Delhi distributes river waters. Our natural resources are looted by the State of India. We are very annoyed with all that is happening to us in Punjab.

There is no liberty. There is no money to pay the Government servants. It has got so bankrupt that it has become a State which is about to wither away. The same is true of most of the States. I heard about Orissa and West Bengal. They do not have any money. So, what are we going to do? How is the Centre going to provide money to all these States? I fail to understand because if the Centre provides all the money, it weighs the jackboots which we do not want it to weigh.

Regarding the question of death penalty, I say that when Shrimati Indira Gandhi was assassinated, the alleged assassins were put to death. When Rajiv Gandhi's assassins were found, they are facing a death sentence. But what about the 1984 massacre of the Sikh people? Why did the State not take the murderers to task-- *and their company? They are still at large. (Interruptions)

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : They have been cleared by the courts. He has been cleared by the courts. (Interruptions) It should not go on record.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: It should be expunged.

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : These Benches have committed the genocide of the Sikh people and they want to reduce me to silence. It will never be done. If they want to face us, they are welcome to face us anywhere. But they cannot shut us down. That is impossible. I will not allow myself to be shut down by some demonstrators in Parliament. This is a speaking House. I have heard them patiently. Let them have the guts, the patience to hear us also.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Mann, they are all patiently hearing. There are certain expressions which are not to be on the record. Therefore, I have expunged them.

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, these people have been named by the people who have been assassinated. I will tell you what is happening in Kashmir.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Kindly concentrate on Presidential Address.

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : Yes, I am concentrating on the Presidential Address. I am telling you why terrorism is raising its head. These are the reasons. The State itself has started committing terrorist acts. None of the perpetrators of 1984 violence, massacre, have been brought to book. What a great shame can there be? I say that these political murders must be accounted for. I will tell you from our experience that when Maqbool Bhatt was hanged in Kashmir, and he was hanged for Kashmir, militancy started in Kashmir. When Satwant Singh and Kehar Singh were hanged, the Sikhs became militants. Now I do not want the Tamil people to become militants. Four people are on the death road from Tamil Nadu. One is a woman. If they are also executed, I dare say this will arouse Tamil nationalism. (Interruptions)

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR : How can he say this? (Interruptions)

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : We have heard you. You please sit down.

SHRI J. S. BRAR : He cannot talk like this. This is too much. (Interruptions)

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : It is not too much. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Mann, those expressions are expunged. They are all expunged. This kind of things cannot go on record.

SHRI RAJESH PILOT : We know that the Member is first time in the House but he must understand the restraint of language in the House. He must restrain. There are some expressions which cause much more problem in the country. He should keep that in mind.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That is why, I am telling him.

... (Interruptions)

20.00 hrs.

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : I want to speak about the Sikh people. There are no Cabinet Ministers or Supreme Court Judges. Why is this discrimination being carried on by the present Government which vowed that it is for the Sikhs and the minorities? Today, the Christians are scared, the Muslims are scared, the Sikhs are scared. Is this the sort of polity we want in India where the minorities do not feel safe? What about the Staines' killers? That person has not been brought to book as yet. What about other people? In Gujarat, what has happened to the Christians? Are we to understand that the authority of the State does not run down to the States where these murderers can be caught and brought to book? This is all that is happening before this august House. (Interruptions).

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SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN: I will sit down when the Deputy-Speaker tells me to sit down. When you become the Speaker, then you tell me to sit down. (Interruptions).

Sir, please control your Congress benches. They cannot shut my mouth.They have committed the genocide of the minorities and the Sikhs. It is a fact that they have committed a genocide. I would rather say that New Delhi ought to extend a new hand. We want a surgical operation of the Indian

Constitution so that it satisfies the Sikh opinion in the Punjab and internationally also. I am a peaceful man and I would say that all Sikhs are peaceful. It is time that we thought about the Sikh problems.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Mann, please conclude.

SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : Thank you, Sir.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The time of the House has to be extended. Now, it is 8 o' clock. There are seven or eight speakers. So, we may have to extend the House for about 40 minutes. We will have to give two or three minutes each to all the speakers.

Is it the pleasure of the House to extend the time up to 8.45 p.m.?

AN HON. MEMBER: Please extend the time up to 9 o' clock.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: So, the time of the House is extended up to 9 o' clock.

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV: Sir, please allow each speaker five minutes.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Everybody will plead his case. When it comes to him, he will take ten minutes. That is what I have seen.

Shri P.C. Thomas. Now, please confine yourself to five minutes, if you can.

SHRI P.C. THOMAS (MUVATTUPUZHA): Sir, I know there is a paucity of time. So, I will confine myself to a few points. I wanted to analyse the President's Address on the basis of some of the basic policies, but as the time is very limited, I am confining myself just to the State of Kerala because not much has been said about the State of Kerala till now in this discussion.

Our State is basically an agricultural State.

There is one difference in the type of crops which are being grown. These are mainly cash crops, coconuts and the like. I am very sad to find that there is no mention of any specifics about cash crops. There is no mention of any encouragement for the farmers who are cultivating rubber, coconut and other horticultural as well as cash crops in very large numbers.

As far as rubber is concerned, I would like to call the attention of the hon. Finance Minister as well as the other Ministers. This Government led by Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee last time, had decided the floor price of rubber as Rs.34.05. I just want to ask whether they are not duty-bound to give to the farmer at least the floor price, the minimum price, the support price which they have declared. I think I have every right to ask that. There is a price which has been fixed but that has not been given. The price was Rs.70 when the Members sitting on this side were sitting on the Treasury Benches three years back. That has come down to Rs.25, Rs.22 and like that. Today, the price is Rs.28. No cultivator is able to cultivate rubber. There is absolutely no way to go further. So, I would request the Government to take at least this Rs.34.05 as the basic price and procure rubber at this price. I refer to the price because if you procure rubber at this price, I am sure you need not have to procure more because the big industries and the tyre manufacturers are the purchasers. They will have to come and give this price to farmers and purchase it. So, you only have to make this mechanism to work. Twenty-eight thousand tonnes of rubber was about to be procured. Now that period has terminated. Now a further order is necessary immediately. Since nothing has been stated about this in the President's Address, I urge upon the Ministry to pay special heed to this. The Finance Minister is going to start the process of preparing the Budget from tomorrow onwards. So, I would request the Finance Minister to stop all imports of natural rubber as well as artificial rubber. As the natural rubber is not being imported in the form as the industrialists want, they are turning to the import of artificial rubber. Polyurethane is one item which is being imported in large quantifies. So, the poor farmers cultivating rubber are put to further difficulties. I would urge upon the Government to take a very strong action with regard to this. If no action is taken, I think we would also have to say what Shri Mann has said. I do not agree with Shri Mann totally, but we may have to say what Shri Mann was referring to because we are being sidelined. The people of Kerala have been sidelined just because this cultivation is mainly in the State of Kerala. But this is one cultivation which has given to the nation a lot of revenue. A lot of revenue and a lot of foreign exchange has been saved on account of the hard labour put by ten lakhs of poor farmers, about eight lakhs of whom are below the marginal line. So, that is one point.

Another mention which has come in the President's Address is with regard to coconut. It is there in Lakshadweep, it is there in eight States, it is everywhere. But as far as Kerala is concerned, one very serious disease has affected the coconut. The whole cultivation is going to be devastated. It is almost just equivalent to the cyclone which is hitting our eastern areas. I am really pained to hear that the cyclone has gone to the extent of very very serious stage. I call upon the Government to take some serious action with regard to the coconut cultivators in this country.

Sir, I am making a very short speech. Just as the cyclone has come, the natural calamities have affected not only Kerala but also many other States.

Sir, I think some clear-cut formula has to be evolved for the purpose of making payments. The Tenth Finance Commission which has made some regulations is not taking into account the real loss which the farmers are suffering and the sufferings of the ordinary people. In Kerala, in my constituency, landslide has occurred during the past 3-4 days and there are heavy rains. No assistance is coming from the Centre.

As far as the Centre-State relationship is concerned, our Party has got a very important say on that. But because of paucity of time I have to conclude my speech.

The States are to be given more money especially seeing their geographical location and other specialities. Some States require more money. The quantum of money which is given should be not only on the basis of either the area or population, but I would submit that density of population should also be considered. If density of population is considered, I am sure that more money will come. Many States, including Kerala, have been sidelined. I would urge upon the hon. Minister of Finance to take these matters very seriously.

With these words I conclude and thank you for the opportunity given.

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