<b>XIII LOK SABHA DEBATES, <i> Session II (Winter Session) </i> </b>
XIII LOK SABHA DEBATES, Session II (Winter Session) Monday, December 6, 1999/Agrahayana 15, 1921 (Saka )


Type of Debate: SPECIAL MENTION
Title: Regarding trial of accused in the Babri Masjid Demolition case.

TEXT :
1204 hours

(At this stage, Shri Rashid Alvi and some other hon. Members came

and sat/stood on the floor near the Table.)

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... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Now, the House will take up `Zero Hour'. Shri Kodikunnil Suresh.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kodikunnil Suresh.

... (Interruptions)

12.05 V

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MR. SPEAKER: Please go to your seat. Coming to the Well of the House is not correct. Please go to your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are disturbing the House. Please go to your seat. You can speak from your seat, not from here.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kodikunnil Suresh.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except what Shri Kodikunnil Suresh says.

(Interruptions) ... (Not recorded)

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN (TIRUNELVELI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Pandian, this is `Zero Hour'. Please understand that there is no point of order during `Zero Hour'.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, 6th December is one of the blackest days of Indian history. (Interruptions) On that day in 1992, an important place of worship was deliberately demolished with the help and assistance of the then ruling political party and the Government of Uttar Pradesh in violation of the Supreme Court order. Therefore, I am sure that all the right minded sections of this House will join me in condemning that incident. (Interruptions)

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MR. SPEAKER: I have allowed Shri Somnath Chatterjee. Please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, once again, we condemn that incident and we also condemn the Government's tardiness, if not complicity, in keeping this issue alive, to try to take political benefit out of it. We condemn this action on the part of the Government. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except what Shri Kodikunnil Suresh says.

(Interruptions) *

MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri Kodikunnil Suresh. Shri Dasmunsi, I will allow you later. Please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kodikunnil Suresh, do you want to make your submission?

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I have not permitted. Please understand that.

... (Interruptions)

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* Not Recorded.

1210 hours

(At this stage, Shri Rashid Alvi and some other hon. Members came and

stood on the floor near the Table.)

MR. SPEAKER: I have not permitted. Members must also know it.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please go to your seats first.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, coming to the Well is not a good thing. Please go to your seats.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is this?

... (Interruptions)

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... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) *

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please go to your seats first.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is not the way.

... (Interruptions)

MR.SPEAKER: I will allow you. Please go to your seat.

... (Interruptions)

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... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please go to your seat, madam.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am appealing to you. ... (Interruptions)

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* Not Recorded.

MR. SPEAKER: I have also noted it.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is not the way.

... (Interruptions)

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... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please go to your seats first.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You can present your views from your seats.

... (Interruptions)

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MR. SPEAKER: I am appealing to you, please go to your seats.

... (Interruptions)

1215 hours

(At this stage, Shri Rashid Alvi and some other hon. Members

went back to their seats.)

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats, first.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is not the proper way to speak. Please go back to your seats first.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You can raise the issue from your seat itself. Please go to your seats.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.

... (Interruptions)

1216 hours

(At this stage, Shri Rashid Alvi, Kunwar Akhilesh Singh and

some other hon. Members came and sat on the floor near the Table.)

MR. SPEAKER: The House stands adjourned to meet again at 2 p.m.

1216 hours

The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Fourteen of the Clock.

1402 hours

The Lok Sabha re-assembled at two minutes

past Fourteen of the Clock.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR (MAYILADUTURAI): Sir, Shri Banatwalla's question has not been answered by the Home Minister. ... (Interruptions) We want to have a response from the Home Minister to the question raised by Shri Banatwalla. We wish to know whether the Government has got at least four cases in the Babri Masjid issue and whether we are going to have a Government run by people, who stand indicted in a court of law. The question before this House is, whether on the day of the demolition of the Babri Masjid, we can trust the Government, which is full of accused in that case, to prosecute the case properly. ... (Interruptions)

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN (TIRUNELVELI): Sir, there is no provision ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Pandian, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Keeping in mind that it is a serious subject, if the hon. Members want, I can allow one Member from each party to say something about the seriousness of this subject. Today we have a very lengthy legislative business. Please understand it.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA (GUNA): Sir, a question was pointedly asked by Shri Banatwalla. We would like to have a response from the Home Minister as to what is happening about the case that is taking place in the trial court. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Dasmunsi, do you want to say something on this?

... (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question asked by the hon. Member was not replied to by the Home Minister. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Basu Deb Acharia, I will allow you later. Now, Shri Dasmunsi.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): Mr. Speaker, Sir, you yourself, with the Members of the House, took a stand to celebrate and to remember the Fiftieth Anniversary of the Republic.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the very preamble of the Constitution, the essence of the secular fabric of the Constitution had been assaulted on the 6th December, 1992. Everybody knows about it. Now, the most important point is this.

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This is a very serious thing. Therefore, I demand that all steps should be taken to ensure the fairness of the trial. Till the trial is not over, not disposed of by the court, those who are accused, those who figure in the list and who are sitting Ministers should not occupy the office. You cannot bring people like Shri Kalyan Singh and Shri Sakshi Maharaj here because they are not Members of the House. That is my fair submission.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, today is the black day in the history of our country when in the year 1992, on 6th December, Babri Masjid was demolished by Vishwa Hindu Parishad, Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh, Shiv Sainees and hoodlums, Sangh Parivar and also BJP in the presence of BJP leadership.

SHRI PRAKASH MANI TRIPATHI : Under what provision is this debate going on?

MR. SPEAKER: You please sit down.

SHRI PRAKASH MANI TRIPATHI : Under what provision is this debate going on?

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please take your seat.

SHRI PRAKASH MANI TRIPATHI : Please pardon me, I just want a clarification. Under what provision is this debate going on? (Interruptions)

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SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : On the 6th December, 1992, they have not only demolished the Babri Masjid but they have also demolished the secular fabric of our country. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I allowed them. Please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You please take your seat.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): (Interruptions) When the matter is sub judice, can it be discussed in the House? (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: We are not discussing it. Please take your seat.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO : We are all discussing it indirectly. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It is a submission please.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You will also get chance, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : After demolition of Babri Masjid, communal riots took place in our country. Thousands of people were killed because of communal riots..(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It is not discussion, but it is submission. Please take your seat.

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MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Shri Basu Deb Acharia's speech.

(Interruptions)*

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Now, a large number of BJP leaders are accused in the Babri Masjid demolition case.... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav is here. When he was the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, some conspiracy was hatched by the BJP but because of him, Babri Masjid could not be demolished by them.

When Shri Kalyan Singh became the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, they hatched a conspiracy and the Babri Masjid was demolished. (Interruptions).

My question is that there are four members of the Cabinet who are accused in the Babri Masjid demolition case. We want to know as to who are these members of the Cabinet, who are accused and in whose presence the Babri Masjid was demolished. (Interruptions).

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MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. I have allowed Shri Basu Deb Acharia. Please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, the demolition of the Babri Masjid is a criminal case. It is a criminal offence. (Interruptions).

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SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : We want to know from the Government whether a person, who is an accused for criminal offence, can continue as a member of the Cabinet or not. (Interruptions). We want to know who are these members of the Cabinet who are accused in the Babri Masjid demolition case. We want to know from the Government whether a person who is an accused in a criminal case can continue or not. (Interruptions). We want to have a clarification from the Government on this. (Interruptions).

MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri Anant Gangaram Geete.

... (Interruptions)

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SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): Sir, I am on a point of order. (Interruptions). Before he speaks, I have a right to speak as I am on a point of order. I am quoting rule 376. (Interruptions).

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rupchand Pal, what is your point of order?

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): Please look at rule 50 in respect of Supplementary Questions. One hon. Member has asked a Supplementary Question. I will quote rule 50 (2):

"A supplementary question shall be held out of order by the Speaker, if in his opinion:

(i) it does not arise from the main question."

But the Supplementary Question, to my mind, was very much...(Interruptions).

MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B.C. KHANDURI (GARHWAL): Under this point of order are we questioning the Speaker's ruling? He is questioning the Speaker's ruling. (Interruptions). How can we reply to that?

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, you have not ruled it out. (Interruptions).

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, he is quoting some rule. I can clarify it.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, the hon. Minister has refused to reply to the question. The hon. Minister himself cannot rule it out in this manner and refuse to reply. Has he any right not to reply to any relevant Supplementary Question, particularly on this day of 6th December, on which day, seven years ago, a very heinous crime had taken place when a place of worship was demolished? (Interruptions).

Now, four of the offenders are in the Cabinet. They were involved in the crime. This Government is protecting the offenders.

One hon. Member has asked a question. You have not ruled it out. The hon. Minister has refused to reply. (Interruptions). He is bound to reply. He has to reply to this question. (Interruptions). You have not ruled it out. (Interruptions).

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rupchand Pal, in the morning it was already decided. I have disallowed the Supplementary Question because it does not arise from the main question. Please understand it. You are again quoting the rule.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. It has already been replied to.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri Geete.

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