SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, it is a very simple amendment referring the Bill to a Joint Committee.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, I have a right to press for the division. So, I am pressing for the division.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, some of the Members are pressing for a division in the matter. According to the voices raised against the amendment, I feel that the division is being unnecessarily claimed.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : No; it is not so. (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, it is the right of the Member to press for the division. (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, it is our right. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Let me complete the observation first. Please take your seat.

Therefore, as per the proviso to Rule 367-3(c), I request those Members who are in favour of the amendment to rise in their seats.

As per rules, the names of the voters shall not be recorded in the proceedings.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : I want to express my opposition. ... (Interruptions) I want to press for division. You put it on record. This is my right as a Member.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That the Bill to provide for the establishment of an Authority to protect the interests of holders of insurance policies, to regulate, promote and ensure orderly growth of the insurance industry and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto and further to amend the Insurance Act, 1938, the Life Insurance Corporation Act, 1956 and the General Insurance Business (Nationalisation) Act, 1972, be referred to a Joint Committee of the House consisting of 15 members, 10 from this House, namely:-

(1) Shri Basudeb Acharia

(2) Shri Moinul Hassan

(3) Smt. Geeta Mukherjee

(4) Shri Sanat Kumar Mandal

(5) Shri Amar Roy Pradhan

(6) Shri P.H. Pandian

(7) Shri Yashwant Sinha

(8) Shri Raghuvansh Prasad Singh

(9) Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav

(10) Shri Rupchand Pal

and 5 from Rajya Sabha;

that in order to constitute a sitting of the Joint Committee the quorum shall be one-third of the total number of members of the Joint Committee;

that the Committee shall make a report to this House by the last day of the Budget Session;

that in other respects the Rules of Procedure of this House relating to Parliamentary Committees shall apply with such variations and modifications as the Speaker may make; and

that this House do recommend to Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do join the said Joint Committee and communicate to this House the names of 5 members to be appointed by Rajya Sabha to the Joint Committee."

Those in favour will please say `Aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: `Aye'.

MR. SPEAKER: Those against will please say `No'.

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: No.

MR. SPEAKER: Now, those who are in favour of `Ayes' will please rise in their places.

SHRI RAJESH PILOT : If voting is to be there, there should a proper voting. This is not the way for the Parliament. ... (Interruptions)

You are setting up a new precedent today. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What can you do? The Members are insisting upon it.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Very well, Sir. If speed is the only consideration, we shall stand up.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Somnath Chatterjee, please go through Rule 367-(3)(c):

"Provided that, if in the opinion of the Speaker, the Division is unnecessarily claimed, he may ask the members who are for `Aye' and those for `No' respectively to rise in their places..."

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : It is humiliating.

MR. SPEAKER: No, no; there is a provision.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : I cannot question your ruling. I know about it. But what are the considerations for deciding whether it is an `unnecessary demand' or not.

MR. SPEAKER: It is there in the provisions.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : It cannot be. ... (Interruptions) Every rule cannot be applied. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Otherwise, they can take the slips from the respective Members. So, please take your seats.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : If there is no strong objection to this Bill, then, it is all right.

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats. They will distribute the slips.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: The slips will be distributed to `Ayes' only.

15.00 hrs.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, are the slips being selectively issued?

MR. SPEAKER: No, they are being distributed to all.

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN (TIRUNELVELI): Sir, the Treasury Benches are not participating in the voting... (Interruptions) That has also to be recorded ... (Interruptions) The democracy is by majority's participation.

MR. SPEAKER: Now, let the Lobbies be cleared --

Shri Pandian, please take your seat. Once the Lobbies are cleared, then you will have the full Division.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA): Mr. Speaker, Sir, what is the procedure that you are following now? ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: We are distributing the slips to all the Members.

Now, the Lobbies have been cleared.

Hon. Members, I have to inform the Members that as the Division Numbers have not so far been allotted to the hon. Members, it is not possible to hold the Division by the Automatic Vote Recording Machine. The Division will be supplied at their seats with `Aye'/`No' printed slips for recording their votes. `Aye' slips are printed on one side in green, both in English and in Hindi, and `No' in red on its reverse.

On the slips, Members may kindly record votes of their choice by signing and writing legibly their names, Identity Cards numbers, constituency and State/Union Territory and date at the place specified on the slip. Members who desire to record `Absentation' may ask for the `Absentation' (Yellow colour) slip. Immediately after recording his vote, each Member should pass on his slip to the Division Clerk who will come to his seat to collect the same for handing over the officers at the Table. Members are requested to fill in only one slip for Division.

Members are also requested not to leave their seats till the slips are collected by the Division Clerks.

Now the question is:

"That the Bill to provide for the establishment of an Authority to protect the interests of holders of insurance policies, to regulate, promote and ensure orderly growth of the insurance industry and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto and further to amend the Insurance Act, 1938, the Life Insurance Corporation Act, 1956 and the General Insurance Business (Nationalisation) Act, 1972, be referred to a Joint Committee of the House consisting of 15 Members, 10 from this House, namely:-

(1) Shri Basu Deb Acharia

(2) Shri Moinul Hassan

(3) Smt. Geeta Mukherjee

(4) Shri Sanat Kumar Mandal

(5) Shri Amar Roy Pradhan

(6) Shri P.H. Pandian

(7) Shri Yashwant Sinha

(8) Shri Raghuvansh Prasad Singh

(9) Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav

(10) Shri Rupchand Pal

and 5 from Rajya Sabha;

that in order to constitute a sitting of the Joint Committee the quorum shall be one-third of the total number of Members of the Joint Committee;

that the Committee shall make a report to this House by the last day of the Budget Session;

that in other respects the Rules of Procedure of this House relating to Parliamentary Committees shall apply with such variations and modifications as the Speaker may make; and

that this House do recommend to Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do join the said Joint Committee and communicate to this House the names of 5 Members to be appointed by Rajya Sabha to the Joint Committee." (14)

The Lok Sabha divided:

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the time taken for the discussion is six hours and twenty eight minutes. Now, the time to be taken for voting is at least three hours. Please be patient.

Subject to correction the result of the division is:

Ayes: 82

Noes: 331

The motion was negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That the Bill to provide for the establishment of an Authority to protect the interests of holders of insurance policies, to regulate, promote and ensure orderly growth of the insurance industry and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto and further to amend the Insurance Act, 1938, the Life Insurance Corporation Act, 1956 and the General Insurance Business (Nationalisation) Act, 1972, be taken into consideration."

The motion was adopted.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, I have one more amendment, amendment number 31. I want to move it.

MR. SPEAKER: It will not be taken up now. It will be taken up later.

The House will now take up clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill.

Clauses 2 and 3

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clauses 2 and 3 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clauses 2 and 3 were added to the Bill.

Clause 4

MR. SPEAKER: There is an amendment number 7 to clause 4 to be moved by Shri Vilas Muttemwar. Shri Vilas Muttemwar, are you moving your amendment?

SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR (NAGPUR): No.

MR. SPEAKER: There are amendments number 22 and 23 to clause 4 to be moved by Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi. Shri Dasmunsi, are you moving your amendments?

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): No.

MR. SPEAKER: There are amendments number 40 and 41 to clause 4 to be moved by Shri A.P. Abdullakkutty, Shri Samar Choudhury, Shri Subodh Roy, Shri Hannan Mollah, Shri Basu Deb Acharia, Shri Bikash Chowdhury, Shri Rupchand Pal and Shri Tarit Baran Topdar. Shri A.P. Abdullakkutty, are you moving your amendments?

SHRI A.P. ABDULLAKUTTY (CANNANORE): Yes. Sir, I beg to move:

Page 3, line 6,-

for "or" substitute "and" (40)

Page 3, line 11,-

for "or experience in life insurance, general insurance or actuarial science, respectively."

substitute "and experience in life insurance, general insurance and actuarial science, respectively." (41)

MR. SPEAKER: I shall now put Amendments Nos. 40 and 41 moved by Shri A.P. Abdullakkutty to vote of the House.

The amendments were put and negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 4 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 4 was added to the Bill.

Clause 5

MR. SPEAKER: There are amendments numbers 8,9 and 10 to clause 5 to be moved by Shri Vilas Muttemwar. Shri Vilas Muttemwar, are you moving your amendments?

SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR : No.

MR. SPEAKER: There is an amendment number 15 to clause 5 to be moved by Shri Anadi Sahu. Shri Anadi Sahu, are you moving your amendment.

SHRI ANADI SAHU (BERHAMPUR, ORISSA): No.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 5 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 5 was added to the Bill.

. Clause 6

MR. SPEAKER: There are amendments numbers 11 and 12 to clause 6 to be moved by Shri Vilas Muttemwar. Shri Vilas Muttemwar, are you moving your amendments?

SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR (NAGPUR): No.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 6 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 6 was added to the Bill.

Clause 7 was added to the Bill.

Clause 8

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Vilas Muttemwar, are you moving amendment No. 13?

SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR (NAGPUR): No, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Anadi Sahu, are you moving amendment No. 16?

SHRI ANADI SAHU (BERHAMPUR, ORISSA): No, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 8 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 8 was added to the Bill.

Clauses 9 and 10 were added to the Bill.

Clause 11

SHRI A.P. ABDULLAKUTTY (CANNANORE): Sir, I beg to move:

Page 4, line 21,--

omit "in, or any defect in the constitution of, the Authority; or" (42)

MR. SPEAKER: I shall put amendment No. 42 moved by Shri A.P. Abdullakutty to clause 11, to the vote of the House.

The amendment was put and negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 11 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 11 was added to the Bill.

Clauses 12 and 13 were added to the Bill.

Clause 14

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Satyavrat Chaturvedi, are you moving amendment No. 21?

SHRI SATYAVRAT CHATURVEDI (KHAJURAHO): Sir, since my amendment has been accepted by the Government, I am not moving it.

SHRI A.P. ABDULLAKUTTY : Sir, I beg to move:

Page 5, line 16,--

add at the end--

"and to check that there is no undercutting of premiums and unreasonable incentives to capture the markets" (43)

Page 5, line 24,--

add at the end--

"etc." (44)

Page 5, line 28,--

add at the end--

"and transparency" (45)

Page 5, line 38,--

add at the end--

"for life and General Insurance sectors" (46)

MR. SPEAKER: I shall put amendment Nos. 43, 44, 45 and 46 moved shri A.P. Abdullakutty to clause 14, to the vote of the House.

The amendments were put and negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 14 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 14 was added to the Bill.

Clauses 15 to 21 were added to the Bill.

Clause 22

SHRI A.P. ABDULLAKUTTY : Sir, I beg to move:

Page 8, line 18,--

omit "or the rules or regulations made thereunder" (47)

MR. SPEAKER: I shall put amendment No. 47 moved by Shri A.P. Abdullakutty to clause 22, to the vote of the House.

The amendment was put and negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 22 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 22 was added to the Bill.

Clauses 23 and 24 were added to the Bill.

02.12.99 Uncorrected/Not for Publication ###

)) Clause 22

SHRI A.P. ABDULLAKUTTY : Sir, I beg to move:

Page 8, line 18,--

omit "or the rules or regulations made thereunder" (47)

MR. SPEAKER: I shall put amendment No. 47 moved by Shri A.P. Abdullakutty to clause 22, to the vote of the House.

The amendment was put and negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 22 stand part of the Bill."

The motion was adopted.

Clause 22 was added to the Bill.

Clauses 23 and 24 were added to the Bill.

Clause 25

MR. SPEAKER: Amendment number 17. Shri Anadi Charan Sahu, are you moving your amendment?

SHRI ANADI SAHU : No.

MR. SPEAKER: Amendment number 27. Shri Rupchand Pal and Shri Subodh Roy, are you moving your amendments?

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, I move my amendment number 27.

I beg to move:

Page9, line 14,- 27

for "association"

substitute "associations" (27)

MR. SPEAKER: Now I shall put amendment number 27 moved by Shri Rupchand Pal to the vote of the House.

The amendment was put and negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 25 stand part of the Bill".

The motion was adopted.

Clause 25 was added to the Bill.

Clause 26

MR. SPEAKER: Amendment number 24. Shri Rajesh Pilot are you moving your amendments?

SHRI RAJESH PILOT : Sir, I have to confirm one thing. The paper I am carrying there the word, `social' has been hand written ... (Interruptions) Has it been accepted? Has it been officially recorded? Sir, you just say one word ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: No, no you cannot do that.

SHRI RAJESH PILOT : Okay, then, would you give me another chance to speak during the third reading? ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: The only option that you have here is either to move or not to move your amendment.

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... (ɴvx)

MR. SPEAKER: Now, are you moving your amendment or not?

SHRI RAJESH PILOT : Sir, he has accepted my amendment, I am not moving.

MR. SPEAKER: All right.

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): Sir, I am not a great leader but at least my name should have been called.

MR. SPEAKER: I called your name. Anyway, are you moving your amendment?

SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : No, I am not moving.

MR. SPEAKER: Okay. Amendment number 28. Shri Rupchand Pal and Shri Subodh Roy, are you moving your amendent?

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, I am moving the amendment.

I beg to move:

Page 9,-

after line 35, insert-

"(dd) the terms and conditions of agents

other intermediaries and surveyors." (28)

MR. SPEAKER: Now I shall put amendment number 28 moved by Shri Rupchand Pal and Shri Subodh Roy to the vote of the House.

The amendment was put and negatived.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That clause 26 stand part of the Bill".

The motion was adopted.

Clause 26 was added to the Bill.

Clauses 27 to 32 were added to the Bill.

First Schedule

MR. SPEAKER: Amendment number 5 & 6. Shri Prakash Paranjpe, are you moving your amendments?

SHRI PRAKASH PARANJPE (THANE): Sir, since the Government has protected the interests of the existing units, I am not moving my amendments.

MR. SPEAKER: All right. Now, amendments number 18, 19 and 20. Shri Rupchand Pal, Shri Hannan Mollah and Shri Basudeb Acharia, are you moving your amendments?

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): Yes, Sir, we are moving the amendments.

I beg to move:

Page 11,-

Omit lines 32 to 34 (18)

Page 14,-

Omit lines 31 to 47 (19)

Page 16, lines 6 and 7,-

Omit "the funds of the policy-holders" (20)


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