MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Dr. Vijay Kumar Malhotra's submission.

(Interruptions) *

+vI ɽn : + +{ ɨ{i Eʮ*

b. ʴVɪ E֨ɮ ɱj : +vI ɽn, ..+<. ʨxɺ] E +xiMi xɽ * ɽ |< ʨxɺ] E +xiMi +i + <ʱB ɽ i Ex E ɽ ɪ +{x E E nJ , `E xɽ *

MR. SPEAKER: Dr. Vijay Kumar Malhotra, the hon. Prime Minister is going to make a statement. Please conclude.

b. ʴVɪ E֨ɮ ɱj : ʺɡ n i Ex Sɽi * +V ɽ {ɮ EO {] x ɮ vx bɪɴ] Ex E Eʶɶ E E ? Vɤ VҴ Mv V E xɨ E +ɪ, Vɤ EjS E xɨ +ɪ ... (ɴvx) Vɤ EO {] E 訤ɮ {ʱǪɨ] E cE x Ҩi xɪ Mv E {.B. {ɮ ix Ec E SV Mɪ Mɪ E =x E +iMi ix Ec E ɱ ɽ Mɪ*

... (ɴvx)

iɤ <xE M E ɽ {ɮ <x ɤ ɴɱ E =`ɪ VɪM <ʱB <xx n E Vxi E vx =x ɴɱ ]E <x ɴɱ {ɮ Mx E ʱB +SxE <xx ɽ Mɨ ְ E n* ... (ɴvx)

+{ұ Ex Sɽi

... (ɴvx)

Your party MP's son has said so. Your party MP's son has given an affidavit.

+{E B.{. E cE x Bbʴ] n* ɽ +{ұ Ex Sɽi E +V n E +n +{x Sn ] E Jiɮ

... (ɴvx)

MR. SPEAKER: He is not yielding. Please take your seat.


*Not Recorded.

b. ʴVɪ E֨ɮ ɱj : < n E +n ɨ|nʪE nM cEx E Eʶɶ x E* n E ɨ|nʪE i E M x E + n E +x E x x n* n E ɨ|nʪE i E E ɤn x E* ɽi-ɽi vxɴn* vɴɮɴ ʺvɪ (Mx) : +vI ɽn, <x U] +ɽ E +vɮ {ɮ ɽ EU ɴx Jx Sɽi , ɽ c iVV֤ E i , c +ɶSɪ E i * +{ɺ Ex Sɽi E <E {ڮ iɮ Jhbx + * V Z` i +V {{ɮ +< , =E VV ɽ E iɮ {ڮ Jhbx E Mɪ * +Mɮ +{ < ɨɱ EU VS Ex Sɽ i =ɨ E< BiɮV xɽ * =E {ڮ iɮ Mi EM*

... (ɴvx)

SHRI K. YERRANNAIDU (SRIKAKULAM): Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very limited matter. Under the Rules of Procedure we cannot discuss this matter elaborately, because it is pending in the court. The matter is sub judice. But, we, our party, have organised rallies against the demolition of Babri Masjid, at that time. We had blamed Shri Kalyan Singh's Government and also Shri P.V. Narasimha Rao's Government for the demolition. This is an old case in which the C.B.I. has already filed two charge-sheets and the then Government, headed by Shri P.V. Narasimha Rao, had appointed public prosecutors to speed up this case. Now, we are in the year 1999. At the time of filing the charge-sheets, the special court had said that prima facie there is a case. Now, the Opposition parties are blaming the Government. Why have they not taken any stand in the House earlier?

Shri Advani was there twice as the Minister of Home Affairs. We have discussed this issue several times on the floor of this House. My party categorically stated about the Bofors case that the law would take its own course. Even the prosecutors were appointed by the then Government. The present Government has been continuing with that. If the Minister of Home Affairs and some other Ministers were particular, they would have withdrawn the case. But the law will take its own course. The Special Court will give a judgment. Then, we will discuss it. That is my party's stand.

My request through you is that the hon. Prime Minister should give instructions to speed up the trial in this case. We will wait for the judgment and then we will discuss it.

|ɦxl ʺƽ (ɽɮVMV, ʤɽɮ) : +vI ɽn, + n ʤɱEֱ n{h iɴɮh , E ɨ|nʪE i {ɮ SS xɽ * Ex n nx , Vɺ ʤxn {ɮ + SS Ex E +ɴɶEi xɽ l, nx SS EE n E M Mɱiɡ {n Ex E |ɪɺ E V * ʴ{I E M E ʱB ɽ +SU xɽ *

... (ɴvx)

E n-ix ʤxn+ {ɮ Eɡ V SS Sɱ * E V E SVǶ] ɤʨ] M< + SV Mɪ* ʴ{I E M ɽ Vxx Sɽi E SVǶ] + SV Eix +iɮ ? SVǶ] xɪɱɪ Vɺ ʤxn {ɮ ɤʨ] i , Vɤ ]ɪɱ E] = E E Jx E ʱB Vi i = SV E Vi * ɽ SVǶ] SV ni * Vɤ = ɨɱ {ɮ =SS xɪɱɪ +ɴnx n n Mɪ, = Eɮ E ʱɪ Mɪ i ɽ E ɨɱ +{x +{ lMi Mɪ* <ʱB = ʤxn {ɮ ɽ +ɮ{-|iɮ{ E ɴɱ E =`i *

Vɽ iE x]ʮM E ɴɱ , ɮi ɮEɮ =x ʤxn+ {ɮ x]ʮM E Vɺ {ɮ ]]E x]x Ex * + E] E x]ʮM + |Ҩ E] E x]ʮM nx n ʤxn M* <ʱB Mɱi +ɮ{ ME nx Mɨ E V *

|ɪ Vx nɺɨƶ V xiEi E i E l* ix Sɽi E Vɤ EO E M xiEi E i Ei i ɨ ZE Vi * E l = nx Vɺ nx ʮ P]ɱ E ɨɱ +ɪ, E l = nx Vɺ nx ƺn E Pں nx E ɨɱ +ɪ, E l = nx Vɺ nx P]ɱ E ɨɱ +ɪ, Ex-Ex M x <iҡ n, |ɪ Vx nɺɨƶ V Vxx SɽM? Vɽ iE ʴɴnɺ{n ɨɱ E icx + xɽ icx E ɴɱ +i , ɽ Ex Sɽi E Mɴx ɨ x +{x Ei E {x nJɪ l E ɮ n E n x n* <ʱB ɽ VE M x n E {xxǨh Ex E |ɪɺ E *

... (ɴvx)

<pVi M{i ɱ |ɺn E ɨɱ Vci * ɱ |ɺn x = nx <iҡ n l Vɺ nx ..+<. =xE lEc {ɽxx E ʱB J j E +ɴɺ E P B l* < ɨɱ + = ɨɱ E BE

l xɽ Vc V Ei* j BE +{ұ EM, Vn ɹh xɽ nx * < n E ɽֺJE Vxi ɽ Sɽi E ɽ Mɴx ɨ E Vxɺlɱ + ɽ n xɪ VB* ɮi ɮEɮ +V Ph E n E ɽ n xɨh EE ɽֺJE Vxi E ɴx E +n EM*

... (ɴvx)

|ɪɮVx nɺɨƶ (ɪMV) : |ɦxl V, +{x xɨ ʱɪ * +{E +Mi Ex Sɽi E ɽ |ɪ Vx nɺɨƶ , ɤɮ ʺVn Mɮx E n Vɤ Sxɴ ViE +B l, ɮ {] xɮʺƽ ɴ V E Ex E ʽi l E +{ Eֺ Uc nVB, +{E iM{j nx SʽB + =xE iM{j +ɪ*

... (ɴvx)

Ex +{E j V E Ex E ʽi xɽ EE +{E xEɱ nM*

... (ɴvx)

b. Pִƶ |ɺn ʺƽ (ɱ) : +vI ɽn, xiEi + {ɮ{ɮ E ɴɱ Vn ɽ M =`i + =E +xEڱ ɴɽɮ Ei * ɱ P]ɱ + l i ƪM xxҪ +bh V E xɨ =ɨ + Mɪ, J֮x V E xɨ + Mɪ* + SVǶ] xɽ + l, ɮ ɽ ɶɴxi ʺx, V + <xƺ ʨxɺ] , =xE xɨ + Mɪ i =x M x c ɪx n, n ɮ ff {] E ɮ >S xiEi + {ɮ{ɮ , iM-{j ni * n E ɨx + nxɪ E ɨx =xx +{x l >S E E x iM-{j n n , xiE + {ʴj Eֺ {ɮ xɽ M, n ɮ >{ɮ +ɮ{ M Mɪ*

+ V ɨɱ , =ɨ V ʺVn icx E Fʨxɱ +ɡƺ E BEVb , VxE VV x E E M |<ɡ Eڮɮ , =E n iM-{j ni +lɴ xɪɨ {ɮ{ɮ E vVVɪ =ci , < ɴɱ {ɮ xxҪ |vx j V E + Vɴɤ nx * ɱj ɽ E l E <ix nx iM-{j nx E ʱB ɴɱ xɽ =`ɪ i +bh V x = ɨɪ Vɤ iM-{j n l, ] ʺƽ V, J֮x V x iM-{j n l i E M x ɴɱ =`ɪ l? ɽ i +{x +{ <x M x iM-{j n l E >S {ɮ{ɮ Eɪɨ Ex ɱ *

+ E xxҪ |vx j V {Ux E >S {ɮ{ɮ + xiEi {ɮ Eɪɨ + V ix M SVǶ]b +ɡƺ E BEVb , =E i B =xɺ iM-{j i JǺi Ei * ɽ BE j ɴɱ , xɽ i xiEi E nֽ< + {ɮ{ɮ E Mɮnx =ci , ɽ +V E] {ɮ E VBM* Z <ix Ex *

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): Mr. Speaker Sir, my Q.No.104 came up for discussion yesterday and certain critical issues emerged from the discussion. These issues were strongly supported by the earlier replies of the Government to an Unstarred Q.No.202 of hon. Member Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi also.

Sir, it is necessary that we do not deviate and derail the main issue with which we are concerned today. Let us not try to derail the critical issues that have come up by the so-called references to the history of the Babri Masjid or the merits of the case or even by hollow untenable imaginative references to the so-called Muslim communalism reciprocated and strengthened by the Hindu communalism. I condemn this pervert thinking.

Today, the critical issue is that all parliamentary norms, all parliamentary morality, ethics and propriety have all been flouted. Here we have a bewildering and unacceptable situation that the hon. Minister replies to this House that he is the accused; that the court has ordered that there is a prima facie case against him; that he, the accused, is having a public prosecutor under his own advice and guidance to prosecute him; and that he, the accused, is monitoring the case against himself.

Sir, what a ridiculous situation? Let not the largest democracy of the world be reduced to this farce and mockery, that is the question that is over there.

We are being asked, why is this question today. It is because all the judicial processes, unfortunately, have become tardy in their pace and are moving with snail's pace. We have our own apprehensions, Sir, that because of this bewildering situation, where so many Ministers in the Council of Ministers are personally involved and accused, because of such a situation, we have our apprehensions. The cases pertaining to the title deed, the cases in the trial court against the accused, the proceedings of the Liberhan Commission, where even the Ministers are not appearing for their evidence, the cases in the Supreme Court with respect to the contempt of the Supreme Court in which the present Ministers are also involved--all these have come to a standstill. They are not proceeding further. We, therefore, have our apprehensions as to how this Council of Ministers is exercising its function. ... (Interruptions) We will listen to the Prime Minister telling us as to how the Council of Ministers could function under such a situation where it has accused among themselves. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go into the record except Shri Banatwalla's speech.

(Interruptions) ... *

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Banatwalla, please wind up.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA : Then, Sir, as it is, the entire Sangh Parivar is responsible no doubt but then here we have specific Ministers who are accused. Under such a situation, let the highest parliamentary decency, propriety, morality, and probity be accepted and be taken up. That is our demand, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: Now, Shri P.H. Pandiyan. Please take only one minute.


*Not Recorded.

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN (TIRUNELVELI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, December 6, 1992 was the black day for the minorities and the dead blow for secularism. ... (Interruptions) Now, I went through the answer to the Unstarred Question to see as to what was it. ... (Interruptions) Sir, is it the way? ... (Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, please control the House. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go into the record except Shri Pandiyan's speech.

(Interruptions) *

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : I want to read the answer to the Unstarred Question No. 207. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me be allowed to speak. ... (Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, the third question, 207 (c)--the names of the persons arrested and granted bail. This is most important. In the enclosed sheet, it has been stated ... (Interruptions) Sir, is it the way? I can react. What are these people thinking? ... (Interruptions)

I can react. I was the Speaker for four years and I was the Deputy-Speaker for four years. (Interruptions) What is this? (Interruptions) I can react. From tomorrow onwards, the House will not be allowed to go on. I can do it. I can do it from tomorrow onwards. If I make up my mind, the House will not be allowed to go on. Please understand that. If I make up my mind, I will see to it that two of your Ministers will be out of Cabinet. I have spared them. If you cooperate with me, they will be Ministers. Otherwise, tomorrow they will be out of the Cabinet. Mind it, I have charges against them. I have been keeping quiet. Do not incite me.(Interruptions) What is this? I have seen such a House.


*Not Recorded.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in column 26, the Home Minister, Shri L.K. Advani's name is mentioned. He is released on bail and he is sitting here. He can be hauled up by the Magistrate tomorrow. Your writ will not lie there. The House's writ will not lie there. He is on bail. In column 34, the name of Kumari Uma Bharati is there. She is on bail.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, we are not discussing the entire case. You please understand that.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : What is this? Now, I must be allowed to speak. I have come here to speak. In column 38, the name of the Human Resource Development Minister, Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi is there. He is also on bail. ... (Interruptions)


SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : If this is the way, I will not allow any Minister to participate. Do you want to know who am I? I can control anything. I have faced so many situations. This is nothing for me. (Interruptions) This is nothing. I had enough experience in Parliament and in Legislature.


SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Slow motion trial is a fundamental right for the Central Ministers whereas speedy trial is a right for the adversaries, the political opponents. They should have a speedy trial for the political opponents but slow motion trial is a fundamental right for the Government, for the Ministers. Under the Indian Penal Code, wherever the word starts, Lord MaCaulay has said "whoever". It is not Shri Advani or anybody. It starts with the word "whoever". So, in that way, they have been accused of conspiracy under Section 120B. (Interruptions) I will not allow. Tomorrow, your Ministers will go out. I will level charges now.... *

Two Ministers are in that Cabinet. I have spared them.


*Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA): It is against the Cabinet Ministers. Is it going on record? It is a very serious issue.

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Mind it, tomorrow morning, they will be out of the Cabinet..(Interruptions) Do not irritate me. There are two Ministers. They are Ministers from DMK. (Interruptions) If they keep quiet, I will not haul them. Otherwise, they will be out. One Minister, who is in-charge of Environment, is running a chemical industry. It is Kings Chemicals. Another Minister is your Industries Minister. (Interruptions) No, they have irritated me. Mr. Prime Minister, before obtaining the resignation of these four Ministers, get the resignation of those two Ministers. The other one is Shri Murasoli Maran. ... (Interruptions)

He is handling a cement industry in Tamil Nadu. My friend, Shri T.M. Selvaganpathi, has spoken in this House saying...(Interruptions). No, now, the matter has taken a different turn. I will not leave it. Mr. Prime Minister, you have in your Cabinet two ...*

+E |vx (JV) : +vI V, ʴɹɪ E + E ?

Pxl Z (M{ɱMV) : +vI V, +{ <xE E, E *

b. Pִƶ |ɺn ʺƽ (ɱ) :+vI V, ɽ `E , <xE x xɽ n V *

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, you can speak on the subject.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN: Then,...(Interruptions) ..**

MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, you can speak on the subject, otherwise I will not allow you.

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Sir, I must be allowed. Please ask them to keep quiet. (Interruptions).