SHRI SUDIP BANDYOPADHYAY (CALCUTTA NORTH WEST): Sir, this type of deliberations cause tremendous anger in the minds of common people in the country. This is not proper. There should be some check over such things at some point.

x ɴɱ : +vI ɽn, ɽ EҮ E >{ɮ SS * ... (ɴvx) EO E Jɱɡ Ex =ɨ Vxi xɽ x Sɽi*

... (ɴvx)

ʶn + : +V ʡ {Eix Eb E ʨʱ]] n E +n {Ec Mɪ * ʴn iEi =xE l n * +V BE ɮ ʡ < n ]ʮV Jiɮ ɽE Mɪ * Ex Sɽi E BE c Jiɮ ɽ E + ʨxɺ] E ʮ{] E iʤE 19,800 <bx B Vx {Eix E +<.B.+<. x ]b E * ʨxɺ] ɽ Ex SɽM E 19,800 B <bx Vx +<.B.+<. x ]b E , ɽ Jiɮxɨ Bx *

+Mɮ ɮ +{x M =E +n ʨɱ VBM i ]ʮWɨ E + Vn Vɤi EM* Vɤ iE E {] ʨɱi M, ]ʮWɨ Wɤi i M* <E l l ɽ Ex SɽM E ʨxɺ] E Ex E ]x { E +<.B.+<. x +{x +d x J * +Mɮ ]x { ʽxnֺix E E Ex +<.B.+<. E M Vn , =xE Jɱɡ Ji Ji En =`x SʽB* Ex ɮEɮ ɽ |]] Ex Sɽi E +<.B.+<. E xɨ E ]x { Jɺ i ֺɱɨx E {ɮx E Vi , +ɨ {ɮx E Vi * x {ұҦi + VɡxMɮ E B ɽi E E E ɺڨ +n VɺE ]ʮWɨ + +<.B.+<. E< iɱE xɽ , Ex =E E {ʱ]E xi E {ʱɺ +ɮ E< ZMc Mɪ i =E +<.B.+<. <xɴ챴ɨ] iE V bɱ n Mɪ* B Eix Ei < = E i Ei * ]ʮWɨ E xɨ {ɮ < iɮ E Ei xɽ x SʽB + n E iɨɨ M E Exʡbx E <E Jɱɡ c< cx SʽB* + {Eix V ʨʱ] ʮWҨ +ɪ , Z {ڮ Ex E ʨxɺ]

ɽ E ɽ ɮ i ɱڨ M V =x M x + ʽxnֺix E Jɱɡ iɪ E *

The military regime of Pakistan, on its own, utilized all possible ways to highlight the Kashmir issue at national and international levels. Pakistan would step-up political, diplomatic and moral support for self-determination of Kashmiris who would take decisions independently.

< {ɮ M Ex E Wɰi *

+Jɮ ɤɺ + i Ex Sɽi E <iiɱ ɽ E +ɨ + .B.B. ]ʮWɨ E E BE ExʡE] {n + * +Mɮ +ɨ + .B.B. E +n <Jiɱɡ M i <ɺ n E Jiɮ M + ]ʮWɨ E Jiɮ {n M, ɽ i EE +{x i ɨ{i Ei *

+ n x<E (+xxixM) : {E ɽ, Vɽ iE EҮ E +n ]ʮV E iɱE , E< iɮJ E< =xɺ ƽ xɽ cx SʽB* <ɨ BE i ɽ E E ɽ Wɽx Jx SʽB E

Pakistan has not reconciled to the accession of Jammu and Kashmir State with India.

ɽ i ʺE i * +{E n M, ɪxɪ {Eix E Ei l E EҮ BE SE Ʈ V * Ex SE Vɤ E xɽ +, iɤ +V iE =xE ɮɤɮ Eʶɶ E EҮ bҺ]ʤɱ<Wx VB + V {ɪɱ] ɽ x E E +V =xE Jʽ ɽ E ʽxnֺix ]] VB* <E l Vɽ {Eix E ɮ ɤ EU nx Sɽi , ɽ nJx SʽB E x Eʮ E l E ֱE E* EҮ ֺɱɨx Vʮ] ʮɺi * iEҨ ֱE Wɽ E xɨ {ɮ +, Ex EҮ ֺɱɨx x {Eix E l xɽ n* EҮ ֺɱɨx x ʽxnֺix E l +{x xi Vc* E xi Vc? <ʱB, E ʽxnֺix E E{ɮi b V l, =xx Eʮ E iɽE V =xE B]F E Jɱɡ l, =ɨ l n* BE iɮJ EEi , {bi

Vɴɽɱ x E Eʮ E ʱB Mɮiɮ B VɺE E< ڱ xɽ Ei* ɽi Mv V x ɪ E Vɤ ɮ ֱE ʡEnɮx n i l, x E Eh Z EҮ nJ< ni *

+ n x<E (+xxixM) : {E ɽ, Vɽ iE EҮ E +n ]ʮV E iɱE , E< iɮJ E< =xɺ ƽ xɽ cx SʽB* <ɨ BE i ɽ E E ɽ Wɽx Jx SʽB E

Pakistan has not reconciled to the accession of Jammu and Kashmir State with India.

ɽ i ʺE i * +{E n M, ɪxɪ {Eix E Ei l E EҮ BE SE Ʈ V * Ex SE Vɤ E xɽ +, iɤ +V iE =xE ɮɤɮ Eʶɶ E EҮ bҺ]ʤɱ<Wx VB + V {ɪɱ] ɽ x E E +V =xE Jʽ ɽ E ʽxnֺix ]] VB* <E l Vɽ {Eix E ɮ ɤ EU nx Sɽi , ɽ nJx SʽB E x Eʮ E l E ֱE E* EҮ ֺɱɨx Vʮ] ʮɺi * iEҨ ֱE Wɽ E xɨ {ɮ +, Ex EҮ ֺɱɨx x {Eix E l xɽ n* EҮ ֺɱɨx x ʽxnֺix E l +{x xi Vc* E xi Vc? <ʱB, E ʽxnֺix E E{ɮi b V , =xx Eʮ E iɽE V =xE B]F E Jɱɡ l, +{x iɮ E ʱB =ɨ l n* BE iɮJ EEi , {bi Vɴɽɱ x E Eʮ E ʱB Mɮiɮ B VɺE E< ڱ xɽ Ei* ɽi Mv V x ɪ E Vɤ ɮ ֱE ʡEnɮx n i l, x E Eh Z EҮ nJ< ni *

EE = Vɨx EҮ E Mʺɨ E Vɮ ɮ xEx xɽ {ɽS* ɽ Vɽ E Vɤ ֺɱɨx +Eʮi ʮɺi x ʽxnֺix E l BE E i ʽxnֺix E = Ei E bʶ{ x EҮ E ɽ Ex nɪ E +{E BE {ɱ ]] < ֱE E +xn JM* ɽ 1947 E i * Eʮ E ɤɺ c Eqɴɮ b J ɽ x <E BE E, Ex 1953 = Ei E ɮEV ɮEɮ x < J E Mɮiɮ, V ʮɺi E |< ʨxɺ] l*

Without being dismissed from the Office of Chief Minister, he was arrested

+ Mɮiɮ EE EҮ E {{ֱɮ bʶ{ E 22 ɱ iE V xn J* ɽ Eix VE E a

Prime Chief Minister who was enjoying the confidence of the House was put in jail and then the Assembly was asked to pass a vote of no confidence against the Prime Minister of the state.

V MɴxǨ] l* =E xiV ɽ + E J ɽ E MVɮ ɮEV ɮEɮ + ʮɺi E, EM E E`{iɱ ɮEɮ x ʨɱE B Eɨ E, Vɺɺ +{x EҮ ֺɱɨx E +{x ɽi nڮ E n* EҮ E ɽ ֺɱɨx, V 1947 {Eix E Jɱɡ cE {ɮ +ɪ, V VM ʽxnֺix E V E x-ɶx , +V ɽ +{ɺ nڮ E V * ɽ iɴɮJ EEi , +{E E ɽ ɱڨ Ex SʽB* Z ɽ M l E ʽxnֺix BE Eֱɮ ֱE E +xn + ɤ EU ʽxnֺix E +xn ɽV , Ex +{x V EU nV Eʮ E n l, +ʽi-+ʽi =E E] n* + EҮ ֺɱɨx E ɽ M E Vɺ ʽxnֺix Mv V l, x +Vn l, {bi Vɴɽ ɱ x l, Vxx iɨɨ +<x iɽVi n l + V M +ɪ, =xE BE-BE EE <xE E] n + =E n ɽ E ֤ɽ +{x {n E n* =E ʱB Vɨnɮ +{ *

The Central Government is responsible for the creation of this militancy in Kashmir.

V = Ei MɴxǨ] l* E {Eix E {] *

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Should we invite discussion separately on this matter?

= Ei E bʶ{ x J +nֱ E ʮ E* +{ V <Vɨ M *

... (ɴvx)

+ n x<E : EO ɱ i EO E {I E i EM* ... (ɴvx)

|ɪɮVx nɺɨƶ : +{E <E xx E ʱB iɮ x SʽB E J +nֱ ɽ E Ex ʮ E l*

... (ɴvx)

+{ iɮ i +{ SS E M EVB* J +nֱ ɽ E ʮ Ex E n Ex Mq {ɮ ʤ`ɪ l?

... (ɴvx)

+ n x<E : +䨤ɱ E 訤ɮ 25 ɱ , B i xɽ *

... (ɴvx)

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Don't shout like this.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi, the hon. Member is not yielding. Let him speak.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : It is a subject of national integration. He is trying to go back to Sheikh Abdulla. We are prepared for a discussion. Let it be discussed. What is there?

+ n x<E : Ex E ɽ iɱɤ E EҮ E V +<x iɽVi l, +{x Ji E n* =xE M E ɮ l ʽxnֺix E +xn ʴɶɺPi * ɽ ʡEɴɮx n i , <E +ɮ ɽ {ci , ɽ +{E ʽxnֺix E +xn nJx SʽB* xi E {U n ɱ n xɽ B, Ex <ɺ {ɽ V B, {ɺ inn E Eix ʡEɴɮx n B* <E +ɮ ɽ E ֺɱɨx E Vx {ɮ {ci * +{E <EV ɨZx SʽB* <ix xɽ, {U {S EҶx, ni E ɮ iE ni E E <x ni <ix xɽ, < E] + |Ҩ E] x ɱ n E Vɽ E E xEx {ɽS , =E +ɴV n Vɪ* ɽ Vxx Sɽi E EE +ɴV ʨɱ* +V iE E E +ɴV xɽ ʨɱ* Ex E iɱɤ ɽ E ɤɮ ʺVn E ɽni <* ֺɱɨx E Vx {ɮ <E BE +ɮ {ci * {Eix E b, {Eix E ]ҴVx,

you are governing the country, ... (

ɴvx) xɽ, =E ʱB +{ Vɨnɮ , Vɨnɮ xɽ * +{ +{ Si * +{ɺ {Ux Sɽi E ɤɮ ʺVn E ɽni {ɮ +{E E ʨxɺ] x <iҡ n E ɮ ֱE E +xn ɽ xɽ x SʽB*

+V +{ bɱ , EE .{. + ʤɽɮ Sxɴ x <ʱB +{ ֺɱɨx E ] ʺɱ Ex Sɽi * +{x E <iҡ xɽ n + ɽ xɽ E E ɮEɮ Uc * nںɮ i ɽ E ֱE iɽ i {ɮ +{E ɽ nJx E ֺɱɨx E xEʮ E ɱi , EE <E =x {ɮ |ɦɴ {ci * i SS i ɽ Jx Sɽi * ɽ Ex Sɽi E EO x < ֱE {ɮ 40-42 ɱ Eڨi E, Ex +{x EҮ ֺɱɨx E ɮEV xEʮ xɽ ʱɪ* <ɺ ɽ +iEn |ɦʴi +*

One dozen ex-MLAs of the National Conference were killed by militants; one MLA was killed by militants; and thousands of workers were killed.

{Eix ɨZi E xxɱ Eƣƺ EҮ ɮ Eɨ Eɴ] bɱ * < Eɮh ɮ +nʨɪ E ɮ V * Vɤ Sxɴ E i +< i nx xE, Sxɴ c* +V {ɪɱ] V Ei E EҮ E ɱi c Jɮɤ * ɽ xɽ Ei E 100 Һn +iEn Ji Mɪ , Ex EV + * ɴɱ ɽ E

the impression is being created by some quarters that the National Conference is against talks.

xxɱ EO iSi E Jɱɡ xɽ *

EU Zɴ V ɽ Jx Sɽi * xxɱ Eƣƺ x < xɪn {ɮ Sxɴ c + x M E E <]xɱ +]x E i EM + = ʺɱ EM* EҮ E ʴEɺ E ʱB, <ɨ Vɨ, qJ + EɮMɱ , BE {ɱ {EV x SʽB* ɽ V Eɮ M , =xɨ Vn inn ֺɱɨx E , =xE ʱB VMɮ E <iVɨ E VB, EE {U n ɱ ɮ ɤ EU Ji Mɪ * <ʱB =xE x ]Ҩ ɪ VB* <ɺ ɽ E M E n Vi V Ei + +nx JnJiɮ E i S Vɪ* * V {ɪɱ] V x E E B iɴɮh {n E V E n ʨʱ]] i Ex Sɽi , {Eix ʮǪi i Ex Sɽi * xxɱ Eƣƺ ʽxnֺix E iɮEE Sɽi * <ʱB n E iɮEE E Vɤ i M,

The National Conference is ready to leave the Government. We will pave the way. My Chief Minister is on record. ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record now except what Shri Selvaganapathy speaks.

(Interruptions)*

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Not Recorded.

1825 hours

SHRI T.M. SELVAGANPATHI (SALEM): Hon. Speaker, Sir, I am thankful to you for having given me this opportunity to participate in this discussion which is an important one concerning the safety and security of this nation.

It is quite unfortunate that I have been left with only four minutes to complete my entire speech and there are many more speakers to participate also. So, I request the Chair to kindly allow us to continue this discussion further, even after the hon. Prime Minister makes his Statement regarding Ayodhya issue, because of the nature of the discussion. I would request the Chair once again to heed to my plea.

According to an estimate nearly two lakh and one thousand people have died in Jammu and Kashmir alone due to insurgency.

SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR (NAGPUR): No. It is not true.

SHRI T.M. SELVAGANPATHI : I have not quoted the period when it happened. It is right from the beginning. Please do not misunderstand me. And thousands of political activists have been taken to task because of militancy and terrorist activities in Jammu and Kashmir. All these things could have been averted if the then Government in power, that is, the Government in power now, had a proper intelligence network or had a proper surveillance about the paramilitary forces.

The Pakistani aggression in Kargil sector will speak volumes about the nature of the failure of intelligence system that exists in our country.

1827 hours (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)

I am not going to go into the details of the Kargil issue. But I would like to draw the attention of this august House to the statement which was issued by the dynamic leader of the AIADMK Party, Madam Dr. Puratchi Thalaivi. That statement cautioned the then Government, which is the same Government which is in power now. That statement brought out the issues to light. That statement revealed the enormous attempt of large scale intrusion in the Kargil sector and the attempts being made by them with the help of Bin Laden of the terrorist organisation and the ISI.

The Government was given due notice several months prior to the Kargil occurrence and it was painful to watch that this Government did not lend its eyes and ears. That statement was well-founded and authenticated, but it was ignored. Our leader's statement was yelled and promptly denied by the then Government. That statement was sent to the hon. Prime Minister, the hon. Home Minister and the hon. Defence Minister. But it did not yield any fruit. Had proper care and attention been given, the whole situation would have been averted and it would have been easier for our defence forces to combat the Pakistani intrusion in a very easy manner.

It is due to the utter callousness and inactive attitude on the part of those in power that such massive and disastrous consequences occurred in this nation. At that time, our leader's statement was not believed, with the result we found that there were concrete bunkers and armouries on the line of control; and we also found that there were well-laid roads and well-laid helipad. This could not have been done in a day or two.

It would have taken several months or even a year. But unfortunately the Government did not listen to the warning given at that point of time. The lack of surveillance and the inadequate intelligence information sometimes lead to such disasterous effect on the security system.

Coming to the main issue, Shri Rajesh Pilot has rightly mentioned that the magnitude of the terrorist activities have reached unimaginable proportions in our country. In Jammu and Kashmir, so far we have seen the militants targeting the civilians. The Army was attacked only when they are on the move, like ambuishing the vehicles etc. So far they have damaged the public properties. But now-a-days their activities have reached such a proportion that they have started attacking even the military headquarters. On the 3rd of November, 1999, the 15th Corps in Badami Bagh was attacked by the militants of that area. This is a shame on our part. The militants have entered the headquarters and killed a Major and several soldiers. The fighting was going on for twelve long hours. This is the magnitude and proportion of their activities. It is surprising and beyond imagination as to how they gained entry into the headquarters. Even the military establishments are not safe. I would like to pose a question to the hon. Home Minister that when the military establishments are not safe, how can an ordinary citizen feel secure in this country?


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