ɽn, {Sɺ ɹ {ɽ Vɤ ʴvx E Bb{] E Mɪ, = ɨɪ M E E{x xɽ l, =xɽx {x xɽ nJ M E ɽi Mv E EO ɽi Mv E +Vn ʽxnֺix E VE E ʴn Ei E |vx j xx E |ɪix M ɹ]{i xx E |ɪɺ M* ... (ɴvx)

V.B.xiɴɱ : x +Vn EE {n B + BVEx ʨxɺ] x*

... (ɴvx)

E] : ɽn, x ʺɡ ix {n E i E - ɹ]{i, ={ɮɹ]{i + |vx j* ɨZ xɽ +i E Ec E ʽxnֺix

... (ɴvx)

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order. ... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Under what section?

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, I am quoting the first page of the solemn declaration of the Constitution of India ... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have to quote the rule.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI :Sir, I am quoting the first page of the solemn declaration of the Constitution of India.

Constitution can be quoted for raising a point of order. (Interruptions)

PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT : But you have raised a point of order.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Yes, I am raising a point of order.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA Let him say under what rule.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Under what rule he is raising? (Interruptions)

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : The Constitution of India and the Rule Book can be quoted off and on for raising point of order. That is the established rule. Any time I can quote Constitution.

... (ɴvx)

|. ɺ ʺƽ ɴi : ɨxi E iɱɤ ɽ xɽ nxɪ E E n E Ei ɽ +E ɹ]{i |vx j xx M VB*

... (ɴvx)

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That was not relevant.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : Under what rule?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is referring under the Constitution.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI: I am quoting the preamble of the Constitution of India. To quote the preamble, there is no bar. It is always allowed for raising point of order or for any other provision. (Interruptions)

E] : ɽn, ɽ Ex xɪɨ E +iMi i * ... (ɴvx)

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : I am quoting the preamble of the Constitution of India. Without preamble, you cannot read the Constitution of India.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : Under which rule? Let him quote the rule. He is not giving the rule. (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, do you think that... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That was irrelevant. You do not ask that question.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is quoting the preamble of the Constitution.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : Under which rule, he is referring? ... (Interruptions)

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : You see rule 294. You read the book. ... (Interruptions)

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA Before telling, first you read out the rule. What is the rule?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You read out the rule.

... (ɴvx)

E] : ɽn, xɪɨ 294 V EU , =ɺ {<] + +bǮ E E< Ƥv xɽ *

... (ɴvx)

|ɪɮVx nɺɨƶ Ƥv xɽ , ɽ b{] {E b<b EM, +{ xɽ*

... (ɴvx)

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let me read.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : It is related to the function of the Committee and he is raising objection. ... (Interruptions)

... (ɴvx)

|. ɺ ʺƽ ɴi : {ɽ ɱ E {ɺ MB*

... (ɴvx)

+Mɮ Ex + n E] E i Ei i {ɽ ɱ E {ɺ MB? E Eɮ MB, =xx E x ʱB?

... (ɴvx)

<ɺ {ɽ ɱ E] E ʤx E {ɺ MB* <ɺ {ɽ ɱ ɮ ʤx E] E {ɺ B *

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : You cannot refer Constitution of India. Do you mean to say..... (Interruptions) Three Bills have been introduced. At that time, you did not come. Do you know how many Bills have been introduced? ... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I am reading rule 294.

... (ɴvx)

E] : x ʤɱ xƨɮ {S <]bں E*

... (ɴvx)

It was under the Constitution. You see the Bill listed under Item No.9. It was also for amendment of the Constitution of India.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Somaiya, he has only taken objection to one Bill. For other Bills, there is no objection. Therefore, we have taken them.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : There is no question of objection. You please see the method he has adopted. The Bill listed under Item No.5 is a Constitution (Amendment) Bill. Shri Basu Deb Acharia's Bill is also a Constitution (Amendment) Bill. Bill listed under Item No.12 is also a Constitution (Amendment) Bill.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : We had no objection to them.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Somaiya, anybody can object to any Constitution (Amendment) Bill. It is not the Chair's business, if nobody has objected to some other Constitution (Amendment) Bill. He has taken objection only to your Constitution (Amendment) Bill. Now, I have to hear him. I have asked him to read the rule.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : Sir, I am just requesting him to quote the rule. Which rule is he quoting?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: There is no need for you to ask. I have to ask him. I am asking him and I am reading the rule. If you are not satisfied, then only I will give and that you can address to me.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : If 14 Bills have already been introduced today and two or three Bills have already been introduced by himself, they were not objected to on the ground that it was not...(Interruptions).

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Swain, if nobody objects to two or three Bills, then do you want me to block them? If you object on one Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, I have to take note of it. If nobody raises any objection on three, four or any number of Constitution (Amendment) Bills, then I have to withhold them. Then, what are you talking about?

... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, are you allowing a full-fledged discussion on this matter? If you feel that it is beyond the legislative competence of this House, then only you can allow a full-fledged discussion.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That is what he has raised.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : If you feel, then only you will allow for a full discussion.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have not allowed a full-fledged discussion. He has raised a point of order.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I am not allowing anybody to start the discussion. When he was replying, Shri Dasmunsi raised a point of order. I have heard you also, but you could not convince me. I differed with you. I said that there is no point of order. He raised a point of order. So, I am asking him. You just point out if it is a point of order, all right, I accept it, and if it is not, then I will rule it out.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, both under rule 376 to raise the point of order - I am quoting rule 294 of the Rules of Procedure pertaining to Private Members' Business, to examine the Bills - and also under the guard of article 19 correlated with the Preamble of Constitution of India, I am raising my point of order. to you.

Sir, besides this, we discuss the nature of the Bill in regard to Constitution amendment to be brought in the House through the Private Members' Business List;, unless otherwise objected, nobody will raise. But since that has not been objected and it has not been examined and it is touching very fundamental rights guaranteed by article 19 of the Constitution of India related to this. I will cite umpteen number of rulings in this House which is affecting the very basic declaration of the Preamble of the Constitution of India from which the strength of article 19 of the Constitution of India emanates in the fundamental rights. The Preamble which has been translated into action in article 19 says:

"Equality of status and of opportunity..."

To whom, to all citizens until this very Preamble, the very structure and the very right under article 19 for every citizen irrespective of his status is not altered or competent to be altered, this Bill cannot be introduced. That is my submission.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, in the Preamble of India, there was no word like `secularism' and `socialism'. It was introduced at a later stage. (Interruptions).

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Normally, this objection does not arise here. In Private Members' Business, it is not taken up.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI A.C. JOS : Sir, you have given ruling on 294, but you have not given a ruling on 295 which he has raised. Rule 295 is very clear. It is succeeded by rule 294. I will quote:

"At any time after the report has been presented to the House a motion may be moved that the House agrees or agrees with amendment or disagrees with the report."

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: It is only introduction of a Bill.

SHRI A.C. JOS : The Committee has not been constituted.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The House itself can take it up when the Committee itself is not constituted.

|. ɺ ʺƽ ɴi : <ɺ {ɽ E 13-14 ʤɱ +lɴ ʴvx ƶvx {ɮ x E< +{ii xɽ E* E] E ɽ M i * Vɤ =x E] x {ɺ xɽ E, ʴSɮ xɽ E i = E + MB? = =x {ɮ ʴSɮ Ei + =x Eɮ E V Ei *

You are requested to kindly allow this Bill also to be introduced.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now let him reply.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, I was also reading out rule 294(1). It says:

"The functions of the Committee shall be--

(a) to examine every Bill seeking to amend the Constitution, notice of which has been given by a private member, before a motion for leave to introduce the Bill is included in the list of business;

Sir, has this formality been completed with regard to other Bills which have been introduced? There should be a level playing field.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: His contention is that there cannot be a discrimination between a naturally born citizen and a citizen who has acquired citizenship. Another point is the one that you have referred to. Have you got my point?


SHRI P.C. THOMAS : Sir, if we have committed one mistake, it cannot be argued that...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Thomas, I am not going into the merit or demerit of it; I am only saying that this is a separate question. The point that has been raised is about discrimination between a citizen born in India and a citizen who has acquired citizenship here. If that is so, then the basic structure of the Constitution is in question. That is what he has asked and Shri Somaiya has to argue from that point of view.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN :Sir, if you allow me also to speak...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I am not asking you. He is the Mover of the Bill.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN :Sir, you have allowed almost a full-fledged discussion...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing of what Shri Swain says will go on record.


MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have not asked anybody to participate. It is not a debate. He has raised a point of order, you have also raised a point of order. I have never asked anybody to participate in the debate.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): If you have allowed him, you allow me also.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No, I am not allowing you unless and until the Bill is introduced. How can I allow you to participate?

E] : ɨxxҪ ={vI ɽn, ɽ n q =`B MB* I{ +{x i Ex Sɽi * E ʤxn+ {ɮ Vɤ ʤɱ {ɮ SS M, iɤ +{x i EM* {ɽ i ɽ E 50 ɹ {ɽ Vɤ ʴvx E Sx E M< = ɨɪ E x < |Eɮ E E{x xɽ E l*

... (ɴvx)

+{ i xB* x nx ʴvx ƶvx Ex E ʱB Vn |ɺiɴ {ɮ SS E* <xɨ E< Vڮ B, Sɽ ɽ EֱʮV E i ʱV E i E E ɹ]ҪEh E i * +xE B ʴɹɪ ɽ {ɮ {ʮi B* Vɤ < ʴɹɪ {ɮ nx SS M = ɨɪ < ʴɹɪ {ɮ Vn ʴɺiɮ +{x i EM* <ɨ M Exx EU xɽ * ʴvx xS֮ +xxS֮ ʺ]Vx E +vEɮ E ɮ E< VF xɽ * <B] +ʡ E ix {n E ɮ ESx Ex ʴvx E ʤɱEֱ ʴ{ɮi xɽ *

nںɮ i ɽ E ʨi SS x x {ɮ {ڮ = < |Eɮ E xhǪ x Iɨ * <ɺ {ɽ Vɤ ʨiɪ E Sx xɽ <, = ɨɪ B ʴvx ƶvx ʤɱ { EB MB*


*Not recorded.

x Eɱ 13 Eɦ ʱE ɦ Eɦ < |Eɮ <]bں E Mɪ * < |Eɮ E |l + {ɮ{ɮ *

That is why you must allow me. I would request you to allow me to introduce this Bill.

ɨnɺ +`ɱ ({f{֮) : ={vI ɽn, ɽ {ɮ EֱʮV E i E M< , ɽ E Eƺ]]ڶx +b] E vɨ xɽ +ɪ *

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, whenever there is a discussion on this, it can only be decided then. Then somebody can challenge it. The Supreme Court can decide whether it comes under the basic features of the Constitution or not.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : I have got the point. In the Indian Parliament also, can such type of a Bill be postponed?

Vɤ Eɦ E Sx E M< l i V {ɽ x +, =ɨ ɤ |Eɮ E |<] 訤ɺ ʤɱ Eƺ]]ɶx +b] +> E Mɪ , ɽ |l * Vɤ


ʤɱ +ɪ, =ɨ ɽ ʤxn ={ʺli + l = ɨɪ <E EʮʡEx n Mɪ l* ɽ Eƺ]]ڶx +b] ʤɱ VɺE ʱɪ Eƺ]]ڶx +bb |{W E * Vɤ < nx E ɪ Vx VɪM + +ɴɶE inx ɽ M, iɦ ɽ +b] M +xl {ʤE b] M* < ɤ E ʱɪ +{ɺ |lx Ei *

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let me give my ruling.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK (PONDICHERRY): Sir, I want to know whether all the provisions of the law of the House and the natural process of the law have been gone through or not. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : This is the Parliament. The job of this House is to legislate. ...(Interruptions) It is for the Supreme Court to decide whether it forms part of the basic feature of the Constitution or not. If anybody thinks that this does not come in the basic feature, he can go to the Supreme Court because the Supreme Court has said it. If it is not the basic feature, let him continue now. This House has got every right to discuss anything. ...(Interruptions) He can go to the Supreme Court. It is the right of the Member to move an amendment. ...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Let me give my observations.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Let him go to the Supreme Court. ...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : What is this Shri Swain? You go on talking without my permission. You have got this habit. I am sorry. You are a young man. You speak well. Let there be some discipline in the House. You speak with my permission or for that matter anybody who is sitting here should do so. Otherwise how will I control the House? You tell me.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Ramdas Athawale, I am talking to Shri Swain and you stand up and talk. How to control the House?

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the Chair does not decide whether the Bill is constitutionally within the legislative competence of the House or not. The House also does not take a decision on specific question of vires of a Bill. As far as a demand for referring the Bill to the Committee of Private Members' Bills and Resolutions, the Committee has not yet been constituted. There are several precedents when Private Members' Bills were included in the List of Business for introduction without prior permission of the Committee.

In these circumstances I put the question before the House.

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : Once an objection is taken, it is a valid thing.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Even in the Committee also, the majority opinion prevails. Therefore, I am taking the opinion of the House.

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : There is a particular procedure laid down.

SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK : I want to know whether it has gone through the procedure or not.


SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK : No, it is not.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: There are precedents on earlier occasions also. It happened.

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : I am sure it was not when an objection like this is raised and then a decision is taken.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : I am told by the Secretariat that there are instances.

I take the opinion of the House.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, it is a question of ruling.

ɨnɺ +`ɱ : ={vI ɽn, V x V q J , = vx Ji ֪ E E EֱʮV + ʶʱV +bb E vɪ M?