This Government should reconsider these Bills. These are very very dangerous piece of legislation. You are presenting on a platter the national savings, the savings of the poor investors and they are going to be virtually looted. You are handing over whatever little authority that the Government of India has now to some appellate body. We know what is going to be this appellate body.

We are not against reforms if reforms are meant to construct something good for the benefit of the common people and for the benefit of the poor. Today we find that in the WTO, the World Bank President has come out with strong words that reforms cannot succeed without just rendering any benefit to the poor people of any country. It has come out. Our former Prime Minister, Shri Narasimha Rao ... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, I am concluding. I am trying to become very relevant to the Bill as much as possible. Our former Prime Minister, Shri Narasimha Rao has made certain observations about three or four days back. I think, it might have been noticed by many people. He has said, "in 1991 when we started the reforms process, we could not imagine that this is going to be the outcome. We were thinking that after liberalisation, people will come and invest in infrastructure and that people will come and take care of the social structure". He has said all these points. It will never be done and it will never happen. After eight years, the leader himself, who had initiated reforms, is lamenting about it. It may be for political reasons or because of some differences, I do not know. But he has said that reforms have failed to achieve the desired goal.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : That is a fact.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : We are having this admission from the World Bank and from the eminent economist Shri Paul Krugman, the greatest advocates of market economy. He has turned around and has taken a totally opposite stand these days. So, I am saying that when you are considering the capital market, you should have to look into the fact that there is enough transparency today. Even after the on-line, even after the National Stock Exchange that has come into operation, derivatives can fit only when you can have a mature and transparent market. There must be able regulators. S.E.B.I. is not ably regulated today. It is toothless and in such a situation, it will play havoc with our small investors.

So, I oppose the Bill and request the hon. Minister of Finance to withdraw the Bill. After due consideration, he can bring it again to serve the nation and not to deprive the national savings from the poor investors.

ʴii j ( ɶɴi ʺx) : ={vI ɽn, =x ɮ n E +ɦɮ Vxx < SS M E < <ix SE xɪ* =ɺ +vE =x xxҪ n E +ɦɮ Vxx < SS M x <Eɮ E + nx E ɨɪ Sɪ*

... (ɴvx)

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : I wanted to speak very much, but I understood that my colleagues have already done the job. That is why, I did not want to repeat the same thing. I have no other bad intention.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I am expressing my gratitude to you.

={vI ɽn, V n ʤɱ x nx E ɨx { EB, =ɨ ix J q * V x +{x |ɮʦE ɹh E l, BE i ɽ E `ʺEʮ]V' ɤn E {ʮɹ BMWʺ]M BE] n iE bҴ]W E ʺEʮ] E {ʮɹ ʨɱ E V E* nںɮ, EE] <x]] EҨ, V {x]x E{x Ƥvi , =xE E xɪjh + +vE * iҺɮ, BE] V +{ұ E |ɴvx , V + ʴii jɱɪ E {ɺ , = +vEɮ E UcE V BE], +ɮb BE +{ұ E ʱB ]Ťxɱ x + , =E ɽ +vEɮ {x Sɽi * Ji: ix i <x nx ʴvE *

bҴ]W E ɮ ɽi SS ɽ {ɮ xɽ <, Ex +-+ {Sxn {ɱ V x E E E ɮ E{] E], ]E E] bҴ]W ]bM E ʱB iɮ + =E {ɽ xxҪ n vEhx V x E< +{iiɪ {ڮ ʤɱ E E =`<* x +{x |ɮʨE ɹh E l E {U E ɦ ɽ ʤɱ { + l + =E n ʴii jɱɪ E V l< ʨi , =E ɽ { Mɪ l* l< ʨi x ʴSɮ EE =E >{ɮ BE ʮ{] nx nx E n* = ʮ{] E |i {ɺ ={ɱɤv * xxҪ n vEhx = ʨi E n l, Ex x {ɪ, Vɤ x = |iɴnx E nJ E BE V ɦ E n E UcE +x E n x ʨi E V ʺɡʮ , =E l +{x +ɽi xɽ Vi< l* vEhx V x xɽ Vi< l* =xx E< x] + bҺ] = ʨi E ɨI { xɽ E l* + =xx Vix i ɽ {ɮ E, =E xE lc ɽi Z +ɶSɪ +*

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Just a minute, Sir. My disagreement was expressed even at the meeting, but Shri Murli Deora, the then Chairman of the Committee had expressed his view that it need not be undercut. So, I did not agree with that and had expressed my disagreement in that Committee. But in obedience with the Chairman's ruling, I could do nothing ...(Interruptions)

Could I write it in the report without his consent?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What the hon. Minister is saying is that you could have given a dissenting note.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I had given it in writing.

ɶɴxi ʺx : < Eɮ E i * < i E x i E xxҪ n x +{x +ɽi Vi<, Ex ɽ +x{SʮE * +{SʮE { ɽ ʨi E |iɴnx ʨɱ xɽ <, <ʱB vx xɽ +<* Ex <x nx i E ɡ< ɽ Ex Sɽi E bҴ]W E Vɽ iE ɴɱ , =ɨ +ixi ɴvx , ʨi fM +M gx E |ɪɺ E , +ixi ɴvx , ʨi fM * bҴ]W Sɺ , +{ƺ * +{ƺ E {ɮҶx xɽ n * ʺɡ Sɺ E ]E +{ E + Sɺ ]E <bE Sɺ E +x֨i n * +x E bʮ] E +x֨i xɽ ʨɱM* <E +ɴ E ɽ +vEɮ E ɽ iɪ E E E ]E BESV ɽ Iɨi E ɽ <xE E E* xxɱ ]E BESV x <E {ڮ iɮ E , xxɱ ]E BESV <E Ʀɱ x Iɨ , <ʱB xxɱ ]E BESV bҴ]W E ]bM M* 䨤 ]E BESV x iɮ E , 䨤 ]E BESV <E Ʀɱ Ei *

... (ɴvx)

Ƥ< ]E BESV <E Ʀɱx E Iɨi , <ʱB ɪn ɽ +x֨i n, Ex <E <xbFʨx] {ɮҶx xɽ nx E {I , x =x ɮ Sɺ E +{ƺ E, V bҴ]W E {ʮɹ ʨɱ , =xE <ɨ +x֨i nx E <SU ƶ Ji * <ʱB <E ɮ Ei< E E E x E ɮEɮ vcE <ɨ +M g VɪM E +x֨i n nM + <ɨ E |Eɮ Mɨɱ VɪM* +ixi ɴvx gM + ɽ {ɮ ɽ Ex Sɽi E V<] {ʱǪɨ] E] ɮ ɽ SS E M<, V<] {ʱǪɨ] E], V ɨ xɴɺ ʨv V E +vIi 1992 x l, Z =E BE n x E M |{i + l*

<ʱB +Mɮ +V E nx <E ɮ , i EU Fbʤʱ] E l , EE x < ʨi Eɨ E l* Ex Sɽi E = ɨɪ E ɮEɮ x <E Eɮ E l* < ʨi E ɤɺ ɽi{h <bM l E < n =nɮn B, Ex Vɺ ɴɺl E iɽi =nɮn x SʽB l, = ɴɺl E x xɨh xɽ E*

It was liberalisaion without regulation.

ɽ = ʨi x E l* = ɨɪ =nɮn E n ְ +, E E >{ɮ nɮ{h xɽ E , E {ɮ +I{ xɽ M , Ex Ex Sɽi , < nx E ʴɶɺ E, E V EU +, Sɽ ɽ ʺEʮ] E] EҨ , Sɽ

NBFC

EҨ , Sɽ EE] <x]] EҨ , Sɽ xv EҨ , Sɽ Sֱ xb EҨ E |Eɮ E EҨ , ɽ ɤ = {ʮʺli +* x =xE U] n n E Vɺ]ɮ +ɡ E{xV E {ɺ VE E{x E Vɺ] E , c-c ʴY{x Vɮ E, M vx BEji E + =E n {i Vɪ, EE E< Mֱx xɽ *

JPC

E ʮ{] E n vҮ-vҮ EE ɮEɮ ɴvx < + Mֱx xx ְ E*

ɮ ʨj {Sxn{ɱ V x E E EɮMɱ E r l + ]E E] g l* , g l* EɮMɱ E r l, EҨi xɪxjh l* , l* E-E ɽi ɮ +xɽx i i + =xE Eɮ Ex il E +vɮ {ɮ Jx SʽB* < i E ʴɶɺ E l E , +V

SEBI

E xɪxjh E Sɱi ɽ Ʀɴ xɽ E ɮi E ]E E] E{ E VBM* ɽ E< ֱɤֱ xɽ V E nx ] Ei * +Mɮ {Sxn {ɱ V + =xE +x ʨj E <E ɮ E< xn , i +{E vɨ xɴnx EM E +{x x < i E xEɱ n, EE < |Eɮ E + E< Jiɮ xɽ * VxM ʮEɪɮ] B E E] E xɽ Ei , ]ɨ] E bɱ] xɽ VBM* <ʱB +V E nx ɽں Ei E Vɺ ɴvx E l bʮ]V E ɨɱ +M gx Sɽi , =ɨ E E |Eɮ E Jiɮ xɽ * nx E ʴɶɺ ni E bʮ]V E bұ Ex E ʱB <E{b + bҴ]V ]bV E B> Ex V *

ɮ ʨj E] V <E ɮ ɽi VxEɮ * < ʴɹɪ {ɮ <xɺ ɮ SS i * ɽ ɽ E ɮ n U] xɴE + =xE l +iSɮ + , =xE >{ɮ Vֱ + * Vɺ iɮ =xE { bڤ , ɽ +ixi {c E i * Sɽ ɽ {

NBFC

E vɨ + , Sɽ ]E E] xʶM E{xV E vɨ + , Sɽ EE] <x]] EҨ E vɨ + , Sɽ Sֱ xb E vɨ + , ɽ +ixi ֮ i , EE E< xɪɨ, Eɪn, Exx xɽ l* nx Mbx ɮ] E{x E i E M< + E Mɪ E =x Vɮ Ec {B EE] E ʱB, E< ʴY{x n E* E{xɪ ` M< ʤɱEֱ Mɪɤ M< + M E Mg E< E { bڤ Mɪ* nx E ix Sɽi E EE] <x]] EҨ * 1997 <ɺ {ɽ ɱ ɮEɮ x, = ɨɪ +] V E ɮEɮ xɽ l, ƪEi S E ɮEɮ l, =xx <E ʱB |ɴvx E + ɽ +vEɮ n E EE] <x]] EҨ Mֱ] E*

=E n BE BE{] E] x* n E] x <E ɮ VS-{ciɱ E* =x E E EE] <xɴ]] EҨ E E b<x Ex SʽB + Ex-Ex i EE] <xɴ]] EҨ xɽ +x SʽB* ɮ EO E ʨj xSSҪ{x V x E E x =ɨ E i iɮ E +{ɴn J * =ɨ nx E ɨɪ ɤn xɽ Ex Sɽi Ex i +{ɴn <ʱB EE <x i +{ɴn E ʱB <xE Mֱ] Ex E ʱB +M Exx |ɴvx * <ʱB <E +ɴɶEi xɽ l E <xE Mֱ] Ex E ʱB ʡ < Exx E< |ɴvx E VB* <ʱB <x i +{ɴn E J Mɪ + n ʨi x EE] <xɴ]] EҨ E V {ʮɹ n < {ʮɹ E x BE] M E * ɮc V x E E Ec ʴɮv Ei * Z ɽ i ɨZ xɽ +< E < +b] , Vɺɨ E +vEɮ nE < i E ʱB Iɨ xx Sɽi E =xE >{ɮ xɪjh J i E E E <ɺ + ] E U] ʨɱ VBM, ɽ i nM i xɽ ` {<*

< i ɽi E ] < * U] xɴE E l vJ + + = E xɪji Ex E ʱB ɽ +b] ɪ V iE +M ɽ Ʀɴ x , Ex i ʤɱEֱ =] * =xE x il +x n E x n < |Eɮ E ɴx i EM E E{ɪ <E +{ +{x x xEɱ n, EE <E n E +vEɮ |{i M VɺE iɽi ɽ <xE xɪji E Ei *

... (ɴvx)

{ɴx E֨ɮ ƺɱ : <xx ɽ E l E < iɮE E {ɺ +vEɮ VBM E Vɨx E Jɮn-Ji =ɨ + VBM*

That is a State subject. ... (

ɴvx)

ɶɴi ʺx : = ʤxn {ɮ + * =xx {ɽ ɽ E E <ɺ U] ʨɱ VBM*

... (ɴvx)

{ɴx E֨ɮ ƺɱ (SbMg) : +{x ɪn nJ xɽ, +{ BE i MB*

You have been swayed only by one consideration. ... (

ɴvx)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA:

x nJ xɽ, x*

I listened to him very carefully. Shri Brar opened the debate and I listened to him very carefully. I did not interrupt him at that point of time. I have here my notes which I have taken meticulously in order to be able to reply to those points.

The second point that he has made is about the right of the States and how this Act or amendment encroaches upon the constitutional right of the States. I do not agree with that approach. I do not think that through this amendment, we are, in any way, encroaching upon the constitutional jurisdiction of the State Governments. What is the power that we are taking? The only power, Mr. Deputy-speaker, that we are taking is to regulate the collective investment schemes which are clearly defined. They relate to agricultural operations because they relate to plantations. It has nothing to do with purchase, distribution, utilisation and lease of land. We are only concerned with the financial instrument and that financial instrument does not fall within the jurisdiction of the State Governments. Under the Constitution, it falls entirely within the jurisdiction of the Government of India and therefore, we are competent to legislate on this.

<xx V iҺɮ ʤxn =`ɪ l ɽ ɽ l E +vEʮ E + +vE +vEɮ n E P]ɱ E* ɮ ʨj xM{i V Jc B l Ex ɽ xɪɨ xɽ i {B E E xɪɨ E iɽi ɽ {<] + +bǮ =` <ʱB =xE i xɽ x M<* ɨZi E E +vEɮ E >{ɮ, ƺl E >{ɮ E fM E< +ɮ{ M nx nx E xɽ gi *

... (ɴvx)

V.B. ɮɮ (nE]) : xxҪ j V, < n E Ec {ɪ MB, E ɽ ɨڱ i ? M x JnE E , =xE { bڤ Mɪ, E ɽ ɨڱ i ?

This is your non-seriousness. We appreciate what you have said, but this ...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You hear the hon. Minister. If there is any clarification that you want to seek thereafter, I will allow you.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : If a Member has some apprehension about a particular thing, this is the comment that the Minister is making.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Bansal, let him complete. Thereafter, if you want to seek any clarification, I will allow you.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI J.S. BRAR : I have not taken any names. I have taken full care of the decorum of the House. Did I mention any name? ....(Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, that makes it even worse because we denigrate an entire class of people by making such an accusation. ... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): There are black sheep also.

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : When sweeping powers are being given to any particular body, institution or organisation, we certainly have the right to express our apprehensions about it.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: We are not giving sweeping powers.

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : What we are expressing our apprehension about is that SEBI would try to even cover those cases where there is a case of only purchase of land.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, I should not be interrupted like this, unless I yield.

={vI V, x +{x ɹh + ɨ{i i xɽ E* ɽ E E x =ix +vEɮ E n Vix +vEɮ E +ɴɶEi * BE iɮ ɽ E V E <ix +vEɮ +vEʮ E n n Mɪ E ] SB B * nںɮ iɮ ɽ {Sn {ɱ V x E E E +vI =xE i l i E +vI x E E i ]l- * <ʱB =xE x E +vEɮ n x +vE +vEɮ n * <E {ɽ SE <x +vEɮ xɽ l <ʱB xɪjh Ex Iɨ xɽ l* V E x E 1997 {ɽ =E ɽ Ex E E< +vEɮ xɽ l* ={vI V, iҺɮ i V x E, V x +{ұ E ɴɺl E * E] ɽ E l E BE ɨɱ BS.Bi.B. E +ɪ Vɺɨ x BE +bǮ {ɺ E* V + iǨx BE] |ɴvx =E iɽi =E +{ұ ʴii jɱɪ +<* ʴii jɱɪ E n {nvEʮ E BE S x< Mɪ l E ɨɱ E n +vEɮ xM* <ɨ ʴii jɱɪ E +vEɮ E jɱɪ E E< x-nx xɽ * n Ei <E +{x EiMi E{ʺ] x * x V +n n l =E l ɽi xɽ B + = +n E =xx xɮi E n* =E n BE +VҤ {ʮʺli {n Mɪ* EU M E EE <E {ڮ VxEɮ xɽ l i =xx S E ʴii jɱɪ x E +bǮ E xɮi E n * nںɮ i E < E x Vɤ < +bǮ E Jɱɡ <E] +{ұ E i ɽ EE Jɱɡ E* ɽ ʴii jɱɪ E n +vEʮ E +bǮ E Jɱɡ +{ұ E* + ɮEɮ E nx +M + +{ɺ <E] E ɨx JSix * +{ұ ʴii jɱɪ +i <ʱB x < {ɮ ʴSɮ E + < xɹE {ɮ {ɽS E {ɽ BE |vEh x + , ]Ťxɱ x + V E +n E >{ɮ +{ұ xi , = E +vEɮ n n VB E ɽ +{ұ x* E] V E <E ɮ lc E l E {i xɽ ɽ +vEɮ V<]-F] ɱ E + V ɽ E +vI ɽ F] ɱ E * V j E Eʤx] j E xM* Ex Sɽi E < iɮ E i xɽ * BE] V |ɴvx =E iɽi ɽ E Mɪ E-


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