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SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): Madam Chairperson, I rise to oppose the Bill because as a direct consequence of the disastrous policy of disinvestment, one of the casualties of that process is the CISF. The Central Industrial Security Force was set up to ensure security to the public sector industrial establishments. Now, through this Amendment, two basic proposals are being made. One is, this particular Force will render security assistance to the private sector, of course, against payment of, maybe subsequently, a very token and nominal fee. Second is, there are 140 and odd officers in the Central Industrial Security Force who were recruited through the combined All India examination. Among the Central paramilitary forces, CISF is the only paramilitary force which has its officers selected through the combined Civil Services examination. But now, changes are proposed to be made in the nature of their duties. They are going to be deployed to curb militancy; and these people, who were trained to ensure security in our important and vital industrial establishments, will be provided for MPs, and even for VVIP or VIP duties. This is humiliation which no right-thinking person can tolerate. These people who sat for these Combined Services Examinations, some of them were offered All India services like IAS and IPS, but they were not allowed to join the services. Now, the nature of their duties are being changed.

Some of the Committees might have gone through this issue. My colleague on the other side had made a mention to Shri Nikhil Kumar Committee. This Committee had submitted its Report and the Action Taken Report which, to my mind, is not very specific about the role of these officers, on how parity can be ensured to them in respect of seniority, promotion, discontinuation of the rota/quota system, and also parity in respect of pay-scales. I think, the Government is very evasive on this particular issue.

I think, there is another Committee which was set up, to which a reference has already been made, that is, the Kakkar Committee. I would like to know from the hon. Home Minister about the recommendations, if there are any, that might have been made by this Committee. I am saying this because the National Police Commission, very recently, has made a specific recommendation that parity should be ensured to these people. But the Government, I think, is yet to spell out its reaction to the recommendations made by the National Police Commission.

A reference has been made to the Fifty-fourth Report of the Standing Committee where the Committee expressed its deep concern over the issue and strongly recommended the reallocation of these direct Group `A' officers of CISF, who were recruited through All India Civil Services examination, into either the Indian Police Service or any other Group `A' Services in order to settle their grievances. Instead of taking into account the unanimous recommendation of the Standing Committee contained in its Fifty-fourth Report, the Government is now proposing to make changes which will have far-reaching consequences in the services itself. It will be ultimately dismantled and it will be misused.

Madam, I am making a reference to the Bill; I am trying to be very much relevant to that. It is mentioned here :

"The Central Industrial Security Force have achieved specialisation in the field of industrial security."

Sir, now all those persons who have achieved that specialisation would be deployed for taking care of the MPs to ensure their security. This is a gross misuse of their talent and their training which have been imparted on public money only.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : The hon. Minister is considering the MPs as industrial units! ... (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Madam Chairperson, I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether the Government has any concrete thinking about the merger of this service. It has been mentioned by my colleague from that side that in case of some `B' Group officers, their service has been merged with the All India Services. Why not, this service is also merged with the All India Services? They are competent and talented officers, who had been given offers to join the IPS and such other Services but deprived themselves of joining those Services and joined the CISF. Now, after so long a period of their efficient and competent service to the nation, they are being humiliated by being asked to render service to the private sector.

Madam Chairperson, how would the private sector use their services? They are at their discretion. We cannot permit our own people, who have been trained by public money, to be grossly thrown at the mercy of the private sector who would be using their services for pittance.

I would like to make a suggestion that these officers of the CISF should be considered, through amendments, for inclusion or for joining the All India Services. They should be granted parity in matters of promotion, in matters of seniority, and in matters of pay scales. Only then we can support this Bill. Otherwise, we cannot support it. Moreover, they should never be allowed to render services to the private sector. There are umpteen number of areas in the industrial establishments and in such other areas where militancy is on the rise and where the Government has a re-thinking on tackling insurgency and containing militancy. Things are happening on a daily basis --

sometimes in Bihar, sometimes in Madhya Pradesh and sometimes in Andhra Pradesh.

Madam Chairperson, only today some hon. Members from that side were speaking about providing security to the communication installations, like telephones and such other things, in the State of Andhra Pradesh and such other areas. There are so many areas which need protection. I think, the services of the CISF should be used for giving protection to Government establishments and for giving protection to the public sector establishments.

Madam, Chairperson, I would finally like to repeat that the officers of the CISF should be given parity; they should be considered for selection to the All India Services, which they are quite competent to enter.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Madam Chairperson, I rise to support this Bill. From what the hon. Home Minister had said while making his initial comments about this Bill and from what I have gathered by going through this Bill, I do not agree with the views expressed by the hon. Member, Shri Rupchand Pal that the CISF would be used at discretion by the private organisations. It is because the hon. Minister has already said that their services would be utilised for protection of certain installations like the atomic installations, the space centres etc. which strictly do not come under the private sector.

Madam Chairperson, Shri Pal has mentioned that CISF is the only one organisation of its kind in the world and it has got the expertise as well. Since 1968, this organisation has been engaged in just manning the industrial institutions of India and so they know where exactly the shoe pinches. Now, there is no harm if they give some specific advice about security to the private organisations on .

With regard to providing consultancy service, the CISF can provide consultancy services to private installations in matters of threat perception, risk analysis and crisis management. As a package, they can offer to private sector, consultancy services in designing of integrated security plans, contingency plans for rescue and evacuation, security of industrial townships, selection, installation and use of gadgetry, high protection, and responsibility schedules of security hierarchy and, last but not least, safeguard against sabotage and subversion. When this organisation is capable of providing this service to private agencies and earn some money by that, why should they not do so? The services will not be provided free of cost. The Government has taken the right decision in bringing this Bill forward to enable the CISF to render service not only to the public sector undertakings but to private installations also.

I do not wish to go into the details. I agree with what Shri Dasmunsi has said with regard to Group A officers of the CISF. I agree with Maj. Gen. Khanduri and Shri Rupchand Pal in this regard. I am not going to repeat what they have already mentioned. But I will try to bring one or two points to the attention of the House. I was also a civil servant once, so, I understand their problems. The CISF was started in the year 1987. I would like to say, for the kind information of the hon. Home Minister, that since 1996 there has been no recruitment to posts in Group A service in CISF. Not only the Group A officers of the civil service recruited to posts in CISF but officers from Army and IPS are also appointed to those posts. Officers of the CISF are also promoted to Group A posts in that organisation. So, it is not similar to any other Group A service. When the officers joined the service in 1987, they knew it to be like any other Group A service and that they will get promotions like in any other Group A service after they put in a service of six to seven years.

Madam, you will be surprised to know that to get to the rank of a Commandant, the equivalent of Superintendent of Police in IPS, it takes 20 to 23 years in this organisation. In IPS or any other service, to get to this grade it takes only four to five years. Other points have been elaborated by Shri Dasmunsi, Maj. Gen. Khanduri and I will not repeat them. I only appeal to the hon. Home Minister to realise that there is a strong IPS lobby. They say that people from other services should not join their service. I appeal to hon. Home Minister to consider this point very sympathetically and see that justice is done to the Group A officers of the CISF.

Finally, I would like to make a point which may not be a direct concern of the Bill under consideration but it is a related topic. It is with regard to another paramilitary force, the Railway Protection Force (RPF). I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Minister to this issue. Fifty per cent of the money given to GRP goes from the Railway Department but they are not under the control of the Railways. If a robbery takes place, or a murder is committed, or there is a theft in a train, people cannot approach the RPF. They will have to go to the GRP which is not under the control of the Railways but under the control of the respective State Governments. Whenever a State Government feels that somebody has become inefficient he is posted to the GRP.

So, I would appeal to the hon. Home Minister that he should consider the points of giving more power to the RPF by calling the Home Secretaries of the States because law and order is a State Subject. Without the consultation of the State Governments, this will not be possible.

Sir, I would also appeal to the hon. Home Minister that he should convene a meeting of the Home Ministers of all the States to see that the RPF is given more power so that they can effectively man the railway installations in India.

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (SIVAGANGA): Respected Chairperson, it is really a wide approach that an amendment is brought about here. But the services given to the private enterprises are also appreciable because nowadays there are many private consulting services coming up. They are coming up like mushrooms. They are getting a lot of money as deposits but they are providing a very less amount as salaries to the security people who are sent for the private industries. Therefore, if the Government interferes in the matter, the ordinary people can get jobs as well as better salaries.

Madam, I am just representing the cause of constabularies. I am not talking about the IPS ranks or Central Services people who are recruited in Class-I posts. I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Home Minister to a point that the ratio between the number of officers and the men is very low. That ratio should be increased so that more constabularies are recruited.

Moreover, the constabularies are coming from remote rural areas. Especially from my constituency and other such areas, many people have come up. These people are having home sickness when they are put up in States like Assam or other similar places. With the result, after completing in five years or ten years, they are resigning from their jobs and coming back to their native places. But these types of things can be avoided by posting them in the States where they belong to. It is because, we have mostly joint families, and we have to look after their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and children. Therefore, we have to find a way out to have their postings in their own States.

Madam, another point on which I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Home Minister is that they should be provided with more training to combat terrorism because in this type of industries especially in petrol industries, lots of terrorists activities are taking place. It may not be as severe as in Assam but it is there in almost every State. Even in Chennai, a lot of theft is taking place in the pipelines and other things. So, they should be fully trained. They should have the way of finding out the culprits. They should be in a position to protect the property of the nation in a proper manner.

Finally, I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Home Minister that the provisions regarding the service matters should be properly framed because it is not controlled by the Government alone. It is only controlled by the private employers. Therefore, their job securities are to be protected. The private employers should not exploit the situation of a very stringent and disciplined force being recruited there. Their should be protection for the people who are sent to the private sector.

SHRI SUNIL KHAN (DURGAPUR): Madam Chairperson, the Central Industrial Security Force Act was framed only to protect the public sector undertakings, that is, the Government property. As the Government has decided to close down certain public sector undertakings, the activities of CISF will, also to a large extent, be extended to the private sector. The CISF Act was framed only to protect the properties of public sector undertakings, and the Government properties throughout the country. But despite that, public sectors undertakings have their own security forces.

Even at the time of framing of this principal Act, some hon. Members opposed it in this very House.

At that time, Government has assured further that the CISF would not be utilised to suppress the trade union movement. But everybody knows that there were numerous unknown reports of the deployment of CISF against the trade union movement.

In various places, several people have been the victims of CISF firing, even those who safeguard corrupt officials.

On the other hand, CISF have completely failed to protect the property to which they are entrusted. Still the pilferage is going on. The only art of specialisation which they have achieved is to suppress the trade union movement.

The private sectors are very much interested to have such specialisation as provided in Section 10 Clause (e) of the principal Act which is perhaps given at free or nominal charges.

Again in the case of theft or otherwise, particularly keeping the eye on the protection of private sector, the removal of such personnel is substituted with forced retirement in Section 8 Clauses (i) and (ii) sub-clause (e) in which many punishment clauses are inserted. If the CISF personnel are to be utilised in the suppression of workers' movement, what would be the position of the Government?

In Section 9 of the principal Act, sub-Section (1), Clause 2 (c) is to be inserted by which the aggrieved personnel force may be allowed to appeal its case to judicial court if the aggrieved personnel is not satisfied with the order of Authority.

For example, if some incident of corruption happened in case of public sector or private sector against which workers demonstrate, then generally we see CISF deploy to disperse the demonstration or order to fire on the demonstrators.

CISF should not be deployed to suppress such type of demonstration.

So, I oppose this Bill.

SHRI ANADI SAHU (BERHAMPUR, ORISSA): Madam Chairperson, I rise to support the Bill. Before I speak on the Bill, let me speak about the plight of the Assistant Commandants who have been recruited earlier. My friend Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi suggested that they be taken into Indian Police Service. But I would suggest that it would not be proper to take them into the Indian Police Service at this stage after they have put in about 15 or 16 years of service. I would appeal to the hon. Home Minister to think of reserving some posts for them in the rank of DIG and IG so that the bottleneck that might have been created could be eased out and after a few years, those officers who had been recruited at the initial stage in Class I Services may not be there and things can be sorted out in a different manner.