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SYNOPSIS OF DEBATES

(Proceedings other than Questions & Answers)

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Tuesday, August 1, 2000/Sravana 10, 1922 (Saka)

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The Members then stood in silence for a short while.

RE: ALLEGED CONTROVERSY BETWEEN FORMER LAW MINISTER AND ATTORNEY-GENERAL OF INDIA

THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN) replying to the points raised by several Members, said: When this issue was raised, the Opposition had demanded that the Prime Minister should come to the House and make a statement. Accordingly, the Prime Minister made a statement in the House. The Government of India and the Prime Minister has nothing to hide in this matter. If the Opposition is not satisfied with the statement of the Prime Minister and if it desires a discussion under any rule, the Opposition should come forward with a motion as per the rules and the Government can respond only thereafter.

(i) Need to declare State Highway between Dausa and Morena via Sawai Madhopur as a National Highway.

SHRIMATI JAS KAUR MEENA: The State Highway No.11 between Dausa and Morena via Swai Madhopur Sheopur-Murena connecting Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh would be linked to National Highway No.AB. The dacoit infested area of Rajashtan would also be safe with the extension of this road. The major tourist places like Jaipur,Ranthambore National Park, Shivpuri and Khajuraho would be directly linked. The work of construction of bridges on major rivers i.e. Morel, Banas and Chambal on this Highway is already complete and it has become operational. However, the maintenance of this Highway has not been undertaken properly by the concerned State Governments. As a result, the passengers from Rajasthan going to Madhya Pradesh have to face a lot of difficulty. In view of the difficulties faced by the people and in the interest of States as well as people, the State Highway between Dausa and Morena via Sawai Madhopur, Sheopur should be declared a National Highway.

(ii) Need to expedite the ongoing excavation work at Garh Kesharia of Rajaben in Bihar.

SHRI RADHA MOHAN SINGH: Garh Kesharia of Rajaben is a famous place from the view point of historical importance. The famous Kesharia temple is located there. The excavation work by the archeological department is going on at a slow pace for quite some years, and as a result, the precious items are not being properly safe-guarded. The ancient and the oldest Shiva Temple of Areraj is located in this very district. It is tourist spot and is very much revered by the people of Nepal as well as India. But it is not being looked after properly. Ashoka Column of Areraj, work place of Chanakya , Vediwan Madhuvan and the place associated with the Satyagrah of Mahatma Gandhi are still neglected. I urge upon the Union Government to expedite the excavation work being undertaken by the acheological department and steps should be taken for the development and maintenance of this tourist place.

(iii) Need to provide a petrol pump on Eastern Express Highway near Mulund and Vikhorli, Mumbai.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA: People of Eastern suburbs of Mumbai are facing a great problem in getting petrol. No petrol pump is located on Eastern Express Highway from Mulund to Mumbai. Vehicle owners, automobile drivers, two-wheeler owners, students have to take a round of 5 to 7 kilometers within the city. In this regard, representations have been submitted to authorities. I request the Union Government to provide a petrol pump on Eastern Express Highway near Mulund and Vikhorli, Mumbai.

(iv) Need to increase the height of platform No.2 and also construct an overbridge at Rajgarh railway station, Rajasthan.

DR. JASWANT SINGH YADAV: Rajgarh railway stations ' platform No.2 is in bad condition. The passengers have to face a lot of difficulty and inconvenience while alighting from and boarding trains. Any time an accident may happen. Besides, the passengers have to face inconvenience for want of an overbridge at this railway station. Hence, I request the Government to increase the height of platform No.2 and construct an overbridge at this station at the earliest so that the passengers could be benefited and the accidents could be averted.

(v) Need for a sanction adequate funds for solving acute drinking water problem in Peddapalli Parliamentary constituency, Andhra Pradesh.

DR. C. SUGUNA KUMARI: Peddapalli Parliamentary Constituency is spread over 7 Assembly Segments in two districts namely Karimnagar and Adilabad. All these segments are under severe drought and people are having enormous drinking water problem. Cattle are dying and the people are in clutches of death. I request the hon. Minister for Rural Development to sanction special and extra funds to the 7 Assembly segments namely Manthani, Peddapalli, Myadaram, Huzurabad, and Indurthy of Karimnagar district and Chinnur and Luksettipet Assembly segments of Adilabad district so that the thirst deaths can be prevented immediately and the long term drinking water strategy can be worked out. I request to treat it urgently and accord sanction and release funds as soon as possible.

(vi) Need for conversion of Achalpur, Murtizapur, Yawatmal narrow gauge rail line into broad gauge in Maharashtra.

SHRI ANANT GUDHE: The railway department had given its approval for converting Achalpur, Murtizapur, Yawatmal (Maharashtra) narrow gauge line into broad gauge in 1996. I request the Government that this line may be converted into broad gauge and it may also be connected to Amaravati Narkhed rail line for onward link to Delhi, Madras and Mumbai.

(vii) Need for aspecial package for overall development of Bihar, particularly Jahanabad district.

SHRI ARUN KUMAR: The raods and water management system for irrigation in Jahanabad district of Central Bihar are almost non-existent. This area is totally under the grip of terrorism. There are Punpun, Dargha, Morhar, Bhutahi, Falgu rivers in Central Bihar through which suitable arrangements can be made for irrigation after appropriate water management. Moreover, electricity can also be produced by setting up hydro-power projects on these rivers. I, therefore, request that a special package may be given for the development of Central Bihar.

(viii) Need to develop Sunderbans in West Bengal as tourist resort.

SHRI SANAT KUMAR MANDAL: Sundarban is the biggest delta of Asia. The centre has already declared Sunderban as National Park. This beautiful delta can be converted into a tourist spot. The local people will not only benefit from this, but the Government of India can also earn huge foreign exchange. The State Government has taken some measures, but these are not enough. A large number of domestic and international tourists visit Calcutta. They can be attracted to Sundarbans if we are able to develop roadways, waterways and construct some good hotels. I have several times demanded to declare Sundarban rivers as national waterway. But so far no steps have been taken. I demand that the Centre should immediately intervene and declare Sundarban as an international spot.

(ix) Need to help small farmers and landless labourers to repay their loans in case of loss to their crops.

SHRI SUNDER LAL TIWARI: The condition of small farmers and landless labourers in the country is pitiable. Recently 18 poor farmers had to sell their kidney in order to repay the agriculture loan. I urge upon the Government to help the small and landless farmers who belong to those districts in repaying their loans when there is not sufficient yield.

(x) Need to also use old railway bridge constructed on river Ganga between Phaphamau and Prayag railway stations, U.P.

SHRI DHARAM RAJ SINGH PATEL: There was an old railway bridge at Allahabad on the river Ganga between Phaphamau and Prayag railway station. There was a road bridge over the rail bridge. As the said bridge was very old it was closed for traffic and a new rail-road bridge was constructed. But due to heavy load of traffic on this new bridge it remains jammed for hours together every day. I demand that the old bridge should not be demolished as it is still in workable condition. The railway lines on the said bridge should be removed and it should be converted into a road bridge. This would help in easing traffic load on the new bridge.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI L.K. ADVANI) moved the motion for consideration of the Bill.

SHRI NARAYAN DATT TIWARI : Today, a new history is being created. Earlier, new States were created on the basis of language. Today this Bill has been introduced in the House after it was passed four times by Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly. This hilly region was earlier a domain of Gorkhas, Chandas and Pawar dynasty. After that it came under British rule and the English ruled there according to their will. No doubt, some development was made there along with the development of Uttar Pradesh, but it did not continue because the assistance provided to this hilly region was not in tune with the assistance provided to other hilly areas. At that time, I had said that if an equal amount of assistance was not provided to this region, the demand for a new State might arise. Today this has become a reality.

The Uttaranchal or Uttarakhand State will be 17^th Indian State on the basis of population and 16^th State on the basis of area. There are 18 per cent Dalits and artisans out of the total population. Today, Tarai and Bhabar are Mini India and are centres of communal harmony. Therefore, we should support it and I believe that the coming generation will maintain this communal harmony. The warriors of Uttarakhand have sacrificed their lives with other warriors of the country. The entire Uttarakhand is full of ex-servicemen. The farmers of the area have made Uttaranchal a lush green with their hard work. But, I believe that it should be developed in a way which may be contribute in the development of Uttar Pradesh also and both of them could become compliment to each other. Ganga is a symbol of national unity. Therefore, we should unitedly think about it. Muslims constitute 22 per cent of the total population in that area.

When I came to know that there was no other way for the development of this hilly area, I raised the demand for a new State. But I do not think that Uttaranchal would be a rival State of Uttar Pradesh. With the development of this State, Uttar Pradesh will also develop. It was Shri P.C. Joshi who raised the demand for Uttarakhand first in 1942. Today this hilly area has potential of becoming a centre of electronics, herbal industry, information technology, software and hardware. Herbs and medicinal plants can be grown there to boost export. Fruits can also be grown. The power generation in this State will be so much that will fulfill the requirement of even Uttar Pradesh. Therefore, we should create this State by rising above all differences.

KUMARI MAYAWATI : The people of Uttaranchal have been demanding since long for creation of a separate State for the development of this area. The Legislative Assembly of Uttar Pradesh passed this Bill four times and sent it to the Union Government. The controversy regarding Udham Singh Nagar and Haridwar should be resolved in a democratic way. The Government should conduct a survey in this area to know the opinion of the people. Any decision should be taken on that basis. A Committee was constituted under the Chairmanship of Shri George Fernandes. He visited Udham Singh Nagar and came to the conclusion that the people of that area wanted to remain in Uttaranchal State. If the Government want this Bill to be passed now and conduct a survey in Haridwar area later on, an amendment can be brought in this Bill later on. Our party does not want that this Bill should be held up due to controversial issues. There is abundance of natural resources in Uttaranchal. The Government can earn revenue and people of that area can get employment by proper utilization of these resources. 13 districts have been included in Uttaranchal State. It has a population of about 25 lakh. If Haridwar is included in this State, its population will become more than its neighbouring State, Himachal Pradesh. The Government have provided 60 seats for its legislative assembly as compared to 68 seats in Himachal Pradesh, but 80 seats should be provided in this State so that the people of all classes can get representation. I would like to suggest that the seats of Lok Sabha should be raised from 5 to 6 and of Rajya Sabha 3 to 4. My submission is that any decision should be taken in the interest of the people of this area. Mostly the hilly areas come under this new State. It has less number of persons belonging to SCs, STs, backward classes and minorities as compared to plains. Since they feel insecure, I would like to request the hon. Home Minister to make some provisions in this Bill to remove the feeling of insecurity among them. For this purpose, welfare departments should be set up. A special provision in the budget under special component plan should be made for development of Scheduled Castes. About 23 per cent can be provided out of the total budget for the development of SCs and STs. The policy of reservation in Government services for SCs and STs should be implemented in this State also. So, the people of this area should not feel that any injustice is being done to them. A special package should be given for Uttaranchal. The Union Government have to take more interest in this area . My party supports this Bill and assure the required cooperation.

SHRI CHINMAYANAND SWAMI : Uttaranchal is known as Dev Bhoomi. It has been the centre of cultural and spiritual activities since long. The Himalayas is known for its natural beauty. The rare varieties of herbs are found there which are not found anywhere in the world. This area has a huge forest cover. Herbal medicines can be produced in this area and it can help to remove economic backwardness. There is vast potential of tourism. If the Government promotes tourism , the economic requirements can be fulfilled. Rare varieties of wood is also available in this area. Garhwal and Kumaon regiments also belong to this area. The country is proud of this area. Haridwar is a part of Uttaranchal from natural and cultural point of view. If it is separated from Uttaranchal, that will be against spiritual history and historical festival like Kumbh will lose its importance. Haridwar will become the base for progress of this new State. I support this Bill and demand that Haridwar should remain a part of Uttaranchal.

A resolution was brought forward in the UP Assembly and it was decided that UP should be divided. Partition of the State did not take place for last so many years. Today UP is being divided and we are supporting the resolution because the demand is justifiable, linked with the sentiments of the people and a right one. I would like to know from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs as to what is the basis on which this new State is being formed. Is it for the political mileage that the new State is being constituted. The BJP in Uttar Pradesh took a decision that UP should be divided into four parts. If the partition is being done only on political considerations, it is not good for the country and the State. There are so many shortcomings in this formation. The new State should be provided adequate funds to stand on its own feet. It requires at least Rs. 20000 crores. Are the Government prepared to give any package to the new Government.

Out of the total population of the new State, SCs are 17 per cent and STs are 3.5 per cent. How many seats have been provided in the Bill for them? It should have been incorporated in the Bill itself. I have also given a notice of amendment. Please give 14 seats to SCs and 4 seats to STs in the Bill. The population basis is justifiable. The number of seats in the assembly has been fixed at 60. Though the population of Uttarakhand is more than the State of Himachal Pradesh, the Assembly seats proposed in the Bill for the Uttaranchal State is less than that of HP. This number should be atleast 80. The number of Lok Sabha seats should be increased by one and the Rajya Sabha seats should also be increased for the State of Uttaranchal.

The new State is being named as Uttaranchal . Why is it so? It is Uttarakhand from historical point of view. All the agitations were launched in this name. I, therefore, request that the new State should be named as Uttarakhand. We fully support this Bill. It will fulfil the popular demand. I express my good wishes to the people of Uttarakhand on this occasion. I also wish a bright future for them. May they make progress.

SHRI MULAYAM SINGH YADAV : Hon. Home Minister calls it Uttaranchal, but we call it Uttarakhand. The Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly had also passed the resolution in the name of Uttarakhand. Today, I could have also supported this Bill like my other colleagues, but I can not fully support this Bill in its present form.

An impression is being created that Uttarakhand has been neglected. It is absolutely incorrect. Even Planning Commission has made provision of a separate plan for the development of Uttarakhand. When I became Chief Minister in 1989, I had made provision of a special development fund in addition to the budget. Special attention was paid to this region in the matter of education and the result is before us. Today, maximum number of educated people in Uttar Pradesh are from Uttarakhand. Haridwar and Udham Singh Nagar are being included in Uttaranchal. So far as feelings of people of these areas are concerned, 80 per cent panchayats there have passed resolutions and given to us, saying that they want to remain in Uttar Pradesh. Wherever the ruling party gets votes, it goes for division of the State on the basis of these votes. They have passed Chhatisgarh Bill because they got more votes from that region. They are creating Uttarakhand also because they got more votes from there. This is the only basis. Development is not the basis of this move taken by the Government. If development is the basis, then they should present the statistics in this regard.

Many new districts have been created and about two hundred and fifty crore rupees are being spent on their creation. Similarly, they would spend money and create new capital, secretariat and increase the number of IAS and other Government employees and these things are not going to benefit people there. If these funds are given for the development of Uttarakhand then the whole region can turn into a prosperous region. So we want that they should respect the feelings of people of Haridwar and Udham Singh Nagar and let them remain in Uttar Pradesh. Then we would support the motion, otherwise we oppose the present Bill.

SHRI PURNO A. SANGMA : I rise to support the Bill. I beg to differ from Shri Basu Deb Acharia, who says that creation of more States will be dangerous to the unity and integrity of the country. Today, why are people demanding more autonomy? It is because we have failed to respond to the aspirations of the people on time. Therefore, I am in support of creation of more States. According to my humble and personal view, Uttar Pradesh needs to be further bifurcated. I extend my full support for a separate Western Uttar Pradesh State. If United States of America can have 50 States, what is wrong in India having 30 States? Therefore, I fully support the creation of the three States. I only want to suggest a few things. I fully support the amendment of Shri Jitendra Prasada that in this Bill, there should have been a clear provision for reservation of seats for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. Out of five parliamentary seats, there is one seat reserved for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. Out of five parliamentary seats, there is one seat reserved for the Scheduled Castes. I would plead with the Government that one more seat for the Parliament could be reserved for the Scheduled Tribes of Uttarakhand. Out of 90 Assembly seats that would be created. I would suggest that it could be eight seats for Scheduled Tribes.

The ST population in the undivided UP was about 0.2 per cent. Now that, their population will be much higher, within Uttarakhand, I would request the hon. Home Minister that a higher percentage in the State service be reserved for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. When you are talking about the unity and integrity of the country, I do not think, we should every time go by economic considerations. Why Shrimati Indira Gandhi, the then Prime Minister of India decided to create seven States out of one in the North-East? Was it on economic considerations? Uttarakhand is going to be a very rich State because it has got to many natural resources. I think, Uttarakhand could be considered to be included in the list of special category States at par with the North-Eastern States. One more point I want to make for the protection of the tribals in the Uttarakhand area. For them, I am suggesting firstly to create a separate district in the areas which are pre-dominantly dominated by the tribals. If these areas could be brought under the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution of India, then, I think, the economic progress and the social progress of the tribal people in Uttarakhand will grow very fast.

SHRI MANABENDRA SHAH : In 1992, for the first time the voice of Uttarakhand was heard. I was the Convenor of a Committee, which looked into the future of the Hills. It was only after 1991, in the Election Manifesto of the BJP that Uttaranchal was projected as an issue which had to receive the consideration of the people of India. We are grateful to all the then Chief Ministers of Uttar Pradesh who gave their nod for the creation of Uttaranchal State. Udham Singh Nagar is correctly included in Uttaranchal because during the Kumaon Rajas during the British Raj and during the post Independence India it was a part of the Kumaon hills. Therefore, I hold that the Government has done a correct thing of disregarding the remote control in saying that Udham Nagar will be part of Uttaranchal. I would like to remind them about Haridwar. If there had been no partition, Haridwar would have continued to be part of the Garhwal region.

In Tehri, we, the Hindus gave Jagir in Khurbura, Shramshakti and Jagir Raj. We gave them land in Dhamwala, Dhartawala, Miawala and Panditwadi for Gurdwaras. This is our tradition. I hope that the Minister of Home Affairs will kindly bear this in mind and in any decision that they take, financial or otherwise, it should be on the basis of region but not on the basis of population. But there is one thing which is making me little suspicious. If we do not have autonomy for corporations and other things, then I do not know how this Uttaranchal will be realized? We have to be always at the mercy of somebody else. Therefore, I would like the Home Minister to bear this in mind and take strong steps to see that our autonomy which is the demand of all our subjects in met, maintained and protected. I would like the Minister of Home Affairs to have a hill cadre. The last issue which is very important is the representation in the Assembly and Parliament. The ratio between ourselves and Himachal should be the same. Right from Jammu and Kashmir to Manipur, all our States are kingdoms except the Uttaranchal of Uttar Pradesh. Therefore, we want the same pattern as has been in Himalayas so that missing link is completed.

SHRI AJIT SINGH : I want to congratulate the people of Uttarakhand for showing their unanimity, perseverance and patience to achieve an objective by waging an agitation through the democratic means. As a result of this the Government have introduced this Bill which was supported more or less by all the political parties. But there are differences on one or two issues relating to Haridwar and Udham Singh Nagar. The creation of Uttarakhand is going to take place because of the aspirations of the people of Uttarakhand and not because of any criteria. On that basis the wishes and aspirations of the people of Haridwar and Uttarakhand should also have been taken care of.

The long title of this Bill should have been Uttarakhand Nirman Bill instead of Uttar Pradesh Reorganisation Bill because there is hardly any objectives to reorganise Uttar Pradesh. In democracy, people should have easy access to their rulers which is not possible in such a big State. That is why Dr. Ambedkar, supporting the view of the then member of Reorganisation Commission, Shri Pannikar, stated that a balance should be maintained in federal structure by bifurcating the Hindi speaking States. Nehruji and Shri Jai Prakash Narain also shared this opinion. All this scheme would have been implemented in 1978-79 had the Government under Ch. Charan Singh stayed a bit longer at the Centre.

This is not a new demand. This is a process which you can not stop. It is because of this I request Sh. Advaniji to formulate a criteria for it. There are four such criteria in my opinion, they are: administrative convincing, similarity in developmental needs, economic viability, cultural language and affinities. The Planning Commission has also suggested to divide U.P. in five parts in 1962. On the one side you are in favour of smaller States and on the other, you are not in favour of creating Poorvanchal. Therefore, you should create a State on this criteria. We will welcome the creation of smaller States if it is done on the basis of development, administrative efficiency and economic viability.

I, therefore, while welcoming the creation of Uttarakhand, request you to take care of the aspirations of the people of Haridwar and Udham Singh Nagar.

In the prevalent condition of the country there exist a lot of other questions, apart from reorganizing the States where the Government will have to take strong steps otherwise the problems will continue to mount.

SHRI CHANDRA VIJAY SINGH : On the one hand, we welcome the creation of Uttarakhand and on the other hand, we have our reservation about the inclusion of the areas of Haridwar other than the Kumbh areas in the proposed State of Uttarakhand. We do hope that the Government, will have a look at it and see that the aspirations of the people of the areas are also fulfilled. We wish it every prosperity.

DR. RAGHUVANSH PRASAD SINGH: A Committee was constituted under the Chairmanship of Shri George Fernandes. Two years have passed but its report has not been made public. We have given amendments in this Bill. Is the Government ready to know the opinion of the people of that area. The Government is playing with the sentiments of Sikhs.

SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: We fully support the idea of Uttarakhand. Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh are so vast that people living in those States really have tremendous difficulties in coping with the administration. The movement for Uttarakhand, which went on for a long time, has given expression to tremendous feelings among the people. The people of Haridwar or Udham Singh Nagar are opposed to this because of certain reasons. Udham Singh Nagar is an area which has been developed by people coming from outside. But that does not mean that their demand for keeping aloof from the new State which is going to be formed should be supported. Once the State comes into existence, there may be other problems like the problem of water, the problem of electricity, the problem of how to deal with the civil services, and so on. All these problems have to be tackled. I am sure, the Central Government will not fail to carry out its obligations. There are a large number of Ex-Servicemen and soldiers who are here in this area which should be kept in mind and taken into account. They are very brave people and courageous people. They have no other occupation. So, this is one of the problems. There are so many other problems in that area. Everything possible must be done, not only by them, but also by the country as a whole. There are a large number of Bengalis. They are also badly in need of help and succour. I think people in those areas are wanting to change over from big, unwieldy and unmanageable State to more manageable and smaller States. Therefore, I think, this is a correct step we have taken not only because of the sentiments of the people but because of the administrative problems and difficulties which the Centre had to face. No doubt it is a good step. We are happy and we congratulate you for that. I think this new State is bound to prosper provided we all get together and help it to stand on its own feet.

SHRI HARPAL SINGH SATHI: I am happy that Uttaranchal is being formed on the first day of August and it is a matter of pleasure for me that this very day is my birthday. It has been pointed out that people of Haridwar are opposed to be part of Uttaranchal. However, in the 1998 elections, I had told the people of Haridwar that if they wanted to be the part of Uttaranchal they should vote for the BJP candidate, Harpal Singh Sathi and if they did not desire they should not vote for him. The people of Haridwar fearlessly voted for the BJP candidate and I was elected from Haridwar. What more evidence could be there? People are misleading the masses that if Haridwar and Udham Singh Nagar go with Uttaranchal, the land of people would be snatched away, ceiling would be imposed and people would have to die in hunger.

I wish to place a fact before this House that out of 291 village Panchayats in Haridwar 260 Panchayats had desired to go with Uttaranchal. Some of leaders are suggesting that referendum should be conducted there. We have no objection to it. Today Uttaranchal is being created and its population would be more than that of Himachal Prdesh. My suggestion is the number of MLA seats should be increased from 60 to 80. I also urge upon that the people of Scheduled Caste should have equal share as per their ratio in the new State.

SHRI SHRIPRAKASH JAISWAL supporting the Bill, said: Our party had passed a Resolution for Uttaranchal unanimously in its session at Calcutta. As such we had created Uttaranchal almost three years ago. The Congress has always raised the voice of people. The Congress has always worshipped democracy and we are bowing to the aspirations of public even this day. We are going to hand-over the power in the hands of those people for their economic development. It is a matter of happiness for us. However, we are a little sad that we people have worked together for last 50 years. The people of this region are hard working and it is matter of pleasure for us that henceforth they would run their own Government. I fully support this demand that this State should be declared a special category State. My other demand is about economic package for this State. If an economic package is not provided to Uttaranchal, how they would be able to build their capital, High Court and how they would manage their districts. There is no such building which can be used temporarily as Secretariat. Everything has to be built afresh. Everything has to be arranged. Unless an extraordinary package is provided to this State it would not be able to stand on its own and our purpose of creating a separate State of Uttaranchal would not be served.

It has been provided in the Bill that an interim Legislative Assembly would function till the elections are held in Uttaranchal. However, the question remains how long this interim Legislative Assembly would keep on functioning. It has not been mentioned. My apprehension is that unless a time limit is stipulated, it may go on working for a year, two years, three years. Hence, it should be provided in the Bill as to how long this interim Legislative Assembly would function. Its tenure should, therefore, be fixed.

SHRI ZORA SINGH MANN: Our party is not opposed to the creation of Uttaranchal Pradesh. However, the fate of people of Udham Singh Nagar is linked with it. The people of Udham Singh Nagar have put in hard labour to build their home and set up their businesses in Udham Singh Nagar. Udham Singh Nagar is a plain area while Uttaranchal is a hilly State. There are sugar mills and rice mills in this area which are feared to be closed down. The losses likely to be suffered by the people of Udham Singh Nagar, farmers, businessmen and labour class would never be made good. I hope this aspect would be taken into account and the sentiments of the people of Udham Singh Nagar would be respected. I myself and my party oppose the inclusion of Udham Singh Nagar in Uttaranchal.

SHRI J.S. BRAR: I rise to support the Uttaranchal Bill. I salute the great people of Uttarakhand who gave sacrifices during the struggle paving way for the creation of this State. I ardently support the amendments moved by Shri N.D. Tiwari and Shri Jitendra Prasad on behalf of our party. A state of greater Uttaranchal can be created by including the divisions of Moradbad, Saharanpur, Bijnaur and Pilibhit in the proposed State.

SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN: Though the Constitution provides for the creation of more States, my Party feels that it will lead to the fragmentation of the country. In the interest of the unity and integrity of the country, we are not inclined to support this Bill, on constitutional grounds. We have been demanding Statehood for Pondicherry for quite some time now, but that has not been acceded to. It is a long pending demand. They have been pressing their demand with the Central Government, headed by various political parties for the last 20 years. So, I demand that the Home Minister must grant statehood to Pondicherry. We are for greater devolution of powers to the States. Distance cannot be a criterion for creation of new States in a democracy. Within a country, we cannot be divided on the basis of distance. A large number of States have already been created in our country and if another new State is created, it will involve heavy expenditure. So, to reduce the expenditure, the present set up of the State of Uttar Pradesh would be sufficient. Most of the Members are in favour of the creation of a new State. They are supporting it politically, but constitutionally, to preserve the unity and integrity of the country, this Bill should not have been brought up here. Constitutionally, we Indians should remain united whether we are from Kanyakumari or from Kashmir. Let us not divide ourselves on other considerations except language. Let us not allow sub-division of the country. Let us devolve more powers to the States. All the States should be treated equal. If article 370 applies to Jammu and Kashmir, then, that article should also apply to all other States. If geographical position is a criterion for protection, then all the States should be treated on an equal footing. This Bill has been brought forward by the Government to meet the political demands.

SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY: I keep on record the strongest sense of our anguish resentment and dissatisfaction over the discriminatory policy adopted by the present NDA Government. They moved three Constitution (Amendment) Bills for creation of Uttaranchal, Jharkhand and Chhattisgarh by neglecting the very genuine, legitimate demand and long-awaited demand of the indigenous Bodo people for having a separate State of Bodoland. I would like to suggest a few points for inclusion in the Bill for well-being and betterment of the people belonging to the Scheduled Tribes living within the would-be Uttaranchal State. Out of five Parliamentary seats, at least, One Parliamentary seat should be reserved for scheduled Tribes people. Out of 60 Assembly seats, minimum ten seats should be kept reserved for the Scheduled Tribes people instead of keeping Uttaranchal, the nomenclature would be kept as Uttarakhand. I would like to appeal to the Government of India to take a very positive and similar policy decision in regard to the creation of separate State of Bodoland on the lines of Uttaranchal, Chhatisgarh and Jharkhand States. It is not a new demand. Until and unless the Government of India concedes our long standing legitimate demand for having a separate State of Bodoland, it can never bring back peace, normalcy and development in the North-Eastern Region.

SHRI RAMDAS ATHAWALE : There is need to smaller States in the country. Baba Saheb Ambedkar had also visualized the creation of smaller States. Uttar Pradesh is represented by 85 Lok Sabha seats. Any State should have atleast 25 to 30 seats in Lok Sabha. I express my deep gratitude to the people of Uttaranchal. We should pave way for the economic development of that State. To this end, there is need to take some concrete steps. A sizeable, portion, i.e. 22 per cent of the State's population consists of the SCs and STs. A provision should be made for the SCs and the STs before the proposal is sent to the Election Commission.

SHRI SAIDUZZAMA : My party welcomes and fully supports the Bill brought forward in this House with regard to creation of the State of Uttarakhand. The issue of inclusion of the area of Haridwar in the proposed State has been shrouded in the controversy. Formerly, this State was proposed to be constituted of 12 districts. Later, the area of Kumbh was proposed to be included in the State and still later the whole area of Haridwar was proposed to be included. This created a sort of controversy. The sentiments of local people should be respected in so far as the question of inclusion of Roorkee is concerned. I support the suggestion of reservation put forth in this House. A comprehensive economic package should be given to the State so that the people can contribute to the progress and development of the State. The people belonging to the minority are happy because they enjoy a good rapport with the local people. A financial corporation should be set up for the minorities so as to inculcate better thinking in them and pave way for their progress. When the district of Haridwar was carved out, one of the blocks of my Parliamentary Constituency, namely Gordhanpur was included in the district. I request that this Khanpur block be returned to Muzzafar Nagar.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI L.K. ADVANI) replying to the Debate, said: In 1953-54 a States Reorganisation Commission was constituted and the Indian States were reorganized on linguistic basis. It will be in the fitness of things if another States Reorganisation Commission is constituted today. There have been different demands from different States as well as from different regions. The people of Vidarbha raised a particular demand which is opposed by the people of rest of Maharashtra. We have taken the line that we can accede to a demand raised from a particular region only if due weightage is given to it by passing a resolutions to that effect in the State Legislative Assembly. It does not mean that we will concede everything passed by the State Assembly but with regard to the creation of a State the Assembly resolution signifies a general consensus.

No political party can claim credit for the creation of new States. The credit goes to the people of the region because the newly created State is only a manifestation of the wishes and aspirations of the local people. We will not be indifferent in so far as allocation of funds is concerned. There have, of course, been some difference of opinion with regard to inclusion/exclusion of Udham Singh Nagar and Haridwar in the proposed State. I agree that a consensus can not be reached on this point but we will favour any decision taken by the majority and the Parliamentary. Shriprakashji talked about greater Uttaranchal for which there is need to undertake a comprehensive exercise.

There are 5-6 sugar mills in Udham Singh Nagar. The local people can benefit economically if sugarcane growing area is annexed to these sugar mills. I will examine this case from that point of view whether it would be feasible to annexe a couple of Tehsils of the bordering districts in the proposed State without making any major change. In place of 60, I have proposed 70 Legislative Assembly seats. I listened keenly to the logical speech delivered by Shri Ajit Singh. The Central Government will definitely ponder over the proposal of the creation of Harit Pradesh in a similar manner after the present three proposals get cleared.

All of us are a party to the creation of these three States. No single political party or Government can claim credit for this. The States have been created while giving due respect to the aspirations of the local people. We can do justice and fulfill the aspirations of the people of these regions and be helpful to move them on the path of progress if we endeavour to get these Bills passed by a consensus.

The Bill, as amended, was passed

Secretary-General.

© 2000 BY THE LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT

NOTE: It is the verbatim Debates of the Lok Sabha and not the Synopsis that should be considered authoritative.