27.11.92 *t30

CONSTITUTION (SCHEDULED TRIBES) (UTTAR PRADESH) ORDER (AMENDMENT) BILL*

(Amendment of the Schedule) CONTD. By Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat [English]

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The House will now take up further

consideration of the following motion moved by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat on the 7th August, 1992, namely:-

"That the Bill to amend the Constitution (Scheduled Tribes) (Uttar Pradesh) Order, 1967, be taken into consideration".

MR. RAM TAHAL CHOUDHARY is not present, Mr. Ramesgh Chennithala may speak now.

MR. RAMESH CHENNITHALA (Kottayam): Sir, I rise to support the contents of the Bill introduced by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat. This Bill is mainly for including a particular community, that is, Banjara community in the schedule. There are certain other communities also who are socially and economically backward and who fulfill all other conditions for getting included in the list. Of course, the Banjara community is considered as OBC in Uttar Pradesh. Sir, there are demands from certain other communities to include them also in the list. Sol my request to the hon. Minister is to

580 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (amend.) of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

come forward with a comprehensive bill so that the demands from different communities can be examined and can be included. For example, there are converted Christians. There are convened Christians in Kerala who are demanding for inclusion in Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. Even though they have adopted Christianity, their situation is precarious. They are living in filthy conditions, They are converted Christians but still their social and economic background is the same; they are not getting any support from the Government. So, they are demanding for inclusion in the list. They should be considered as SCs and STs. My request to the hon. Minister is that this should be considered. Sir, lot of representations were given to the Central Government and the State Government also examined their request. So, it is high time that this demand is considered.

Just like this, there are fishermen in certain areas like Lakshadweep and other Union Territories who are considered as tribes. Their social and economic conditions are also to be considered. So, there is not only Banjara community but there are other communities and sections of people who are suffering a lot and who are fulfilling the conditions for inclusion in SCs and STs list who should be considered. My request to the hon. Minister is he should come forward with a comprehensive bill so that these demands can be met.

There are lot of complaints regarding bogus certificates of SCs and STs. Government must take this as serious issue and vigorous punishment should be given to those people who are having these bogus certificates and cheating the Government for getting the facilities which are entirely meant for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.

Government should give rigorous punishment to those people, who are trying to take away the advantages meant for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, through bogus certificates.

Another point that I would like to raise here is about changing the names of certain communities. There are demands from certain communities to change their names.

581 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

They demand a change of name because the names of the primitive communities seem to be derogative terms. Therefore, this demand for change of names should also be looked Into.

Yet another demand is about having a general list. Throughout India, in different States, communities with identical socioeconomic status and condition, are known with different names. My request is that we should have a general name for such communities all over India. This aspect may also be given due consideration.

I do not want to take much time of the House. So. I request the Government to come forward with a comprehensive Bill so that the long- standing demands of the different communities for inclusion in the Schedule can be achieved. Certain State Governments have already submitted their demands in this regard. I once again request the Government to bring a comprehensive Bill to do justice to these people who are suffering.

[Translation]

DR. LAXMINARAYAN PANDEYA (Mandsaur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Bill presented by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat is concerned with the inclusion of a particular caste of Uttar Pradesh in the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled tribes. It is necessary to pay proper attention to the Bill. is not just the question of inclusion of a particular caste of Uttar Pradesh because there are many other castes In the other states also which can be Included In the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled TRIBES and I would like to express my views in this regard. It is a It is a fact that the Banjara Community of Uttar Pradesh has been always neglected. Same is the case with Banjara caste In Madhya Pradesh. It is not clear that In which list that caste has been included. A clear cast system should be adopted In this context. In regard to Meena Caste in Madhya Pradesh it is considered to be upper caste somewhere and in some other places it is included in the list of Scheduled Tribes. Such type of dual situation exists in two different districts. The.

582 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

Meena caste of Rajasthan is treated as Rajput and also considered as Scheduled Tribe in the same State and somewhere it has been put in general category. There are so many such other anomalies in connection with backward classes, tribes and Scheduled Castes. Karbelia is a roaming community. But there is no reference regarding this community in the Constitution, we should pay attention towards this fact.

Banjara community is not only backward socially but educationally also, so ft should be included in the list. All these steps should be taken not only in the context of Uttar Pradesh only but In all other related states also. Another caste is Bachra which is also very neglected and there are a a number of other castes in Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh. But neither they are included in Scheduled Castes nor in backward classes. So ft is necessary to review the matter. Similarly, there is a caste named as Bairagi or Jogia Community which earns its livelihood by catching the snakes but they have not been included in the list of Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes. Information should be sought from all states regarding which castes are included In the list and which are not included in the fist of Scheduled Castes and Tribes. There are so many such castes which are not included in SC's or ST's like Yamakshi who are drum beaters and they have been put In the general category. That is why they are not getting the due facilities provided to those by the Government and they have to get false certificates. It would be better n a time bound programme is chalked out for this purpose and the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes is prepared again. Only than the people belonging to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled tribes would be able to get justice.

I would Like to repeat my request in respect of Meena caste. If they are included In the list of Scheduled Tribes then they are not allowed to sell their land and in another district they are Included In general category and they are allowed to sell or buy the land.

Therefore these anomalies should be removed. A comprehensive Bill should be Introduced after a thorough review of the situation] so that the anomalies In the system

583 Constitution (S. T.) (U.P.) order (amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

[Dr. Laxmi Narayan Pandeya]

are removed and justice is done to the neglected communities and they may get social justice.

SHRI NITISH KUMAR (Barh): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I stand to support the Bill presented by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat I support the Bill because he has presented the Bill to Include the Banjara Community. In the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled tribes of Uttar Pradesh.

Along with this I would like to draw your attention towards the fact that there are some castes whose social status and standard is equal to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. But once the list of Scheduled Castes and Tribes has been prepared, great difficulty is being faced now to include some new castes in the list. Through you we would request the Government that a comprehensive policy should be framed after conducting a survey in this connection and such eligible castes should be Included....

[English]

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The time allotted for this subject was two hours and that will be over by five minutes to four. Still there are many Members who want to participate in the discussion and the Minister also has to reply to it. Is it desire of the House to extend discussion on this subject?

[Translation]

SHRI MOHAN SINGH (Deoria): The debate on this Bill should be concluded in half an hour and then next Bill should be taken up. A detailed discussion has already been taken up during. The last session.

[English]

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: So. in this half hour's time all the five speakers should finish their speeches and the Minsters reply should also be over within this time.

584 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P.) order (amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

[Translation]

SHRI NITISH KUMAR: Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, many such castes have been left from being included in the fist. You should frame a now policy after conducting a full survey and on this basis amendment should be made in the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.

There are some such castes as Gaund, Bind, Nunia and Beldar In my state of Bihar. Their social status and educational standard is similar so that of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. This question has always been raised In the State assembly. Therefore I urge the Government to Include them also In the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. Similarly there is another caste called Pan. K we look at the list of such castes you would notice many such castes whose social status and educational standard is same as of the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes and Pan caste The also the same.

ft is a very backward class. Therefore, through you, I would like to urge that these castes should also be included In the list.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, once again I would like to request you that a single policy should be frame after conducting a survey and then the list should be revised and made upto date as per the demand, which is being made by the people.

With these words, I conclude.

[English]

SHRI PETER G. MARBANIANG (Shillong): Sir, I rise to congratulate Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat on bringing to the for front the need of Identifying and inclusion at certain tribes of U.P. into the Presidential Order in Scheduled Tribes.

Sir, I agree with all the hon. Members who are of the opinion that the Government should come up with a more comprehensive Bill to Include all the other tribes and castes so that opportunities or protection In the Constitution of India are extended to all of them.

585 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

Sir, on this Issue, I would dwell upon the plights of the dalit Christians. I thank you very much Mr. Chennithala for drawing the attention of the Government to this very important issue. There are more than 10 million daft Christians living all over India. They are there in Madhya Pradesh, Kerala, Tamil Nadu and in almost all the State of India, Now, I cannot understand the philosophy behind your proclamation order that a man or a woman just because he or she is convened into Christianity, they will lose their right, they will lose their recognition as Scheduled Castes of the country.

India is a secular State. In a secular State, we are protected to believe one's God, in one's faith, according to one's conviction.

Therefore, this presumption that once you are converted into Christianity, you will lose your right as a Scheduled Caste. It is against the fundamentals of the Constitution of our great country.

This issue has been raised for many years. I remember in 1981 during the National Front Government, those who were converted Into Buddhism were included In the Presidential Order. Now I do not understand how converted Christians have been denied this right.

During the National Front Government, I was one of those MPs who had raised this Issue In this honourable House. I remember Mr. Ram Vilas Paswan replied to the debate. He had promised to take up this issue in the next session of Parliament. Unfortunately, their Government fell and the promise made by them could not be fulfilled. If you go through the assurances, you will find that there Is a clear assurance that Dalit Christians also will be Included In the Presidential Order.

Unfortunately, till today, it seems nothing has been done.

I remember in the last Budget Session about 200 MPs of this august House had signed a memorandum and submitted it to the Prime Minister requesting him to bring a new Presidential Order to include those converted Christians also to be treated as Scheduled Castes.

586 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

By becoming a Christian you do not become easily well off; you do not become easily well placed In society. It is only that belief in the faith that has made a man or a woman be converted into Christianity. Our social status Is the same like anyone else. If a Harijan is converted into Christianity, he Is still treated as a Harijan. If a backward caste is converted into Christianity ft is still treated as a backward caste. How is it that he loses or her that she loses his or her that she loses his or right to be included in the Scheduled Caste Presidential Order?

On the 21st of November, we had a very big meeting In Vijayawada where the Minister of Welfare, Sitaram Kesari was present there. All the Dalit Christians, more than five lakhs of them, in Vijayawada, with one voice, had requested the Government to bring a change in the Presidential Order to include them also as Scheduled Castes.

Conversion into Christianity does not give them any additional facilities in life; they remain as they are. In fact by becoming Christians they lose their right to be protected under the scheduled Caste Order.

I feel that the Government should now come forward with a comprehensive Bill to take care of those matters which are the crying needs of the hour. Thank you.

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Still there are four hon. Members who have to participate in the debate. Two more names have come. We have to close this debate by 4.25 p.m. Including the reply by the hon. Minister. So.

I request all those hon. Members to be brief in their speeches.

[Translation]

SHRI TEJ NARAYAN SINGH (Buxar): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill and at the same time, I want to say that the Banjara community Is not only confined to Uttar Pradesh alone but it is there In all the States. So. wherever this community is living, ft should be included in the list of Scheduled Castes. Along with ft, I would like to say that the Gond community has been Included In

587 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

[Sh. Tej Narayan Singh]

the list of Scheduled Castes by the Government of Bihar and the High Court has also ordered its inclusion but this community, Gond is not only confined to Bihar alone but it should be included in all the States of the country. Therefore, it should be included In the list of Scheduled Castes at all India level. There are other castes in Bihar also which are socially weak and which are not given due rasped in society. Therefore, reservation should be provided to them keeping In view the spirit of the Constitution so that they can achieve dignity and equal status In society. Nothing has been written in the Constitution about the economic equality. It someone says that economic equality has been guaranteed, then man like me Is not ready to accept R. Those who framed the Constitution thought that only the social equality for these castes is necessary but not the economic equality. Therefore, for social equality, the castes residing In Bihar like Luhar, Kumhar, Khambkar, Nonia, Been, Rajbhar, Hazzam etc. who are socially neglected, should be given reservation facility.

Therefore, I demand that these castes should also be Included In the list of the Scheduled Castes.

Along with it, I want to make this demand, also that there is a caste, Paneeri, which too is socially weak. They have no stand In society. To bring them at par with the other castes, ft is necessary that the Paneeri caste should be included in the list of Scheduled Castes.

I would like to conclude after making one more point. Since names of various castes have been included in the list of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and their number is increasing continuously, there is need to raise the percentage which is at present a total of 22.5 percent as the number of the casters in increasing in these lists. It is said about the people of the Meena caste that they are also Harijans, therefore they should also get reservation. With these words, I support the Bill in the House and with it make a demand that with the inclusion of Banjara community in the lists of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, other castes, 588 Constitution (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend. of the Schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

which I have referred to, should also be Included in these lists. So.

that they can also avail of the benefit of reservation and they can also make a rise in society. With these words I conclude.

[English]

SHRI DATTATRAYA BANDARU (Secunderabad): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very much grateful to you for giving me this opportunity to express my views.

In this country, In spite of our 45 years of independence, so many communities are still socially discriminated. There is a lot of discrimination in the villages In regard to the profession of many of the communities like Scheduled Castes.

In Andhra Pradesh, there are many communities who have the profession of washer man. They generally wash clothes of the people in the villages and even in the towns. In many places they have been isolated and their houses have been totally neglected and they are supposed to stay In the corners of the villages. They are socially neglected and are economically very poor. Till date they cannot afford to take two meal a day. That Is the opposition of washerman In Andhra Pradesh.


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